Robert Judd

Robert Judd

Born 1950s.

Genealogical Interests

Communication Preferences: I am interested in communicating with cousins and anyone else with an interest in genealogy.

Here is my family tree.


Contents

Biography

  • Youth is a blunder, manhood a struggle, old age a regret.―Benjamin Disraeli

It Begins

Project Logo
Robert has been a member of the England Project for over 1,000 days.
Profile Improvement Voyager
Robert has completed the Profile Improvement Project's Voyage
English flag
Robert Judd has English ancestors.
Magna Carta Project logo
Descendant of several Magna Carta Surety Barons.
England Orphan Team
Robert Judd has completed the England Project's Orphan Trail.
Robert Judd has Irish ancestors.
Portuguese Flag
Robert Judd has Portuguese ancestors.
Norwegian Roots
Robert Judd has Norwegian ancestors
Robert Judd has French origins.
Victoria flag
Robert Judd was born in Victoria, Australia
Robert is a Scientologist.
Sydney, 1975. Clear #13611
Robert is a Computer Engineer. Wang National Tech Support Workshop, Sydney, 1978
Robert is a member of the VeNuS High IQ Society: > 147 SD15 x 3
  • obert Judd was born at Nan Org private hospital, Dorset Road, Croydon, Victoria on 10th February 1953, a Tuesday. The attending physician was Dr Wight and the nurse Sister Love. Since the hospital was not yet officially open his birth there may have constituted a crime, although some might say a crime was committed regardless of that circumstance. A public survey in the late 1980's, taken by the hospital to discover the first person born there, unveiled that he had been pipped by a pair of twins a month earlier.

The Middle Bit

  • Discovering what happened in the intervening years is a task for the genealogists of the future. Superficially it would seem wise to preemptively quash the rumours which naturally abound within a family about one's activities, but on the other hand that takes a lot of the fun out of life, so they may just dig harder to find something really juicy.
  • Or maybe all the good stuff is being put aside for a book.

Present Day

  • Rob studied the MIT 7.00x Introduction to Biology—The Secret of Life course in 2019, achieving a respectable 78% on the final exam. The grade for issue of a certificate is 80% but he's not overly disappointed, since conditions were not exactly ideal; at the time he was officially homeless and living aboard a yacht, with no airconditioning and a poor internet connection.
  • Rob is a retired computer engineer living in Bundarra, New South Wales. He shares a decommissioned two storey double brick Post Office built in 1893 with Miss Mousie, a timid field mouse who makes occasional visits to the kitchen to nibble on pastries left out to thaw, and a grey-brown lizard which likes to sun itself on the footpath of an afternoon, and is the immensely proud owner of an Husqvarna ride-on mower.


Why Genealogy?

  • To be ignorant of what happened before you were born is to remain forever a child.―Marcus Tullius Cicero
Robert Judd is a member of the Judd Name Study Project.
Robert Judd is a member of the Toy Name Study Project.
Descendant
Descendant of honored ancestors.
Robert Judd is a member of the Spaulding Name Study Project.
Robert Judd is a member of the Topliss Name Study Project.
  • I have an interesting tree, which inspired me to delve deeper. Four convicts, several Irish names that are untraceable, one from the Isle of Man and two from the Isle of Wight. I made a map of where my recent ancestors came from, which can be viewed here.
  • There are a number of rare surnames in my tree which may be worth investigating: Ashlye, Carnbellack, Medlen, Ventham, Trengrowse, Rounce, Mylrea, Frizwel, Burrett, Harald, Tuddenham, Chalton, Dunthorn, Flaxon and Gluvias.
  • The last of these came from the parish of St Gluvias in Cornwall and morphed into Gluyas within a few generations. I remember seeing the name Gluyas on the front fence of a nearby house as a child, and now wonder if we might be related.
  • Possibly the most valid reason, though, can be best summarized in the lyrics of a novelty song of my youth. "When you get to my age, it helps to pass the time."[1]

One Name Studies and Projects

  • What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.―William Shakespeare
  • I have initiated One Name Studies for each of my grandparents' surnames, viz: JUDD, TOY, SPAULDING and TOPLISS along with common variant spellings of those names. Feel free to PM me to join and contribute to any of these projects.
  • My immediate genealogy goals are to complete the ahnen list to generation seven—113/127 done—and get as many as possible DNA verified. There are also some unsourced profiles, many of which are waiting for the Wiltshire OPC project to index birth and death records; and finally, I need to connect a few unconnected profiles to the "big tree", as well as any non-family members I happen to be working on from time to time.

Notable Relatives

  • Infamy! Infamy! They’ve all got it in for me.―Kenneth Williams, Carry On Cleo (1964)
  • The connections below are currently unverified but do actually work, for now. Pass the salt ...
  • The above pathways will change occasionally as links are added or broken. That's the nature of genealogy.

Sources

  • Anything intelligent always looks for its source—it’s the oldest law of the universe.―Misba, The High Auction
  • Footnotes and Citations
  1. My Old Man's a Dustman by Lonnie Donegan
  • Source List
  • Compilations

Acknowledgements

  • If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants.―Isaac Newton
  • I'd like to make mention of a few special genealogists.
  • Karlena Nagle has been tracing the Spaulding family for about 25 years and has been a source of infinite information. Don Hetherington has expended an equal amount of effort on the Spaulding tree. Without the work of these two, my job would have been much harder. They both rate a mention in Geoff Spaulding's book.
  • A further special mention goes to my brother Phil, who not only rescued grandma's box of letters and photos from the dump but has managed to scan most of them and make them available. The Hewitt and Topliss trees would be far poorer without them. My other brother, Trevor, appears to have inherited Dad's box of 35mm slides, which include photos of the Judd half of the family back to my great-nana Hannah (Wood) Toy, and will be scanning them onto computer soon.
  • While we're on the subject of the Wood part of the family, Laraine Burton has been a fount of knowledge. I've enjoyed extensive chats with her over on FamilySearch. She's one of the old school who isn't afraid to travel to the local district and dig into the library books. Former WikiTree member Barrie Mair and his associates also deserve a mention for their detailed profiles of William Wood (1764) and his son William James Wood (1806).
  • My 9th cousin George Judd from Idmiston, Wiltshire has been doing the family genealogy for many years, continuing the work his father began in the 1930's, and has supplied information that extends the Judd tree back to 1375. Vale George, dec. 5 Oct 2019.
  • The works of Frances Coakley at Manx Notebook, and Di Banks' site on the Mylrea family, have also proven invaluable in my research on the Isle of Man.
  • And I do have to mention my first cousin Neil Judd—born on exactly the same day as me—who, in August 2019, sent me scans of 116 photos of the extended Judd family of Ararat, Victoria: uncles, aunts, grannies and kids. They are now the pride of my project and I am gobsmacked and humbled by this generous contribution.
  • From the Toy family, my 10th cousin Ian Nicholls has recently sent me some inspiring data, and also introduced me to a Facebook group that I didn't know about. The manager of that group, Darryl Toy, lives in Wiltshire but is related to both my paternal grandparents!
  • Further thanks go to my 12C1R Glenn Blomfield from New Zealand who has provided me with a GEDCOM of the Blomfield family that goes back to antiquity. A truly amazing work indeed, it contains 8,650 people in 41 trees. Cheers, Noddy!

DNA

  • This (DNA) structure has novel features which are of considerable biologic interest.―Rosalind Franklin
  • In early 2019 I bought the Living DNA 3-in-1 package and the results are, satisfyingly, 100% British. Father: Haplogroup I-L38; Mother: Haplogroup K1. Wanting more detailed information, I undertook a Whole Genome Sequence in mid-2019, and the results of my Dante Labs test finally became available in February 2020.
  • According to preliminary fit at YFull, my paternal haplogroup is I-S2488* (I2a1b2a2c), formed 4200 ybp. Further analysis by Antonios Kollias of the I-L38 project suggests S2488>BY91614>BY200375>FT127074 but more testees need to be found for this rare haplogroup before the yDNA tree can be expanded to include these extensions. The only person with the surname Judd who has been proven to share this haplogroup so far, is Mike Judd of Arizona, USA, with whom I share George Judd (1610-1686) as an ancestor. YFull also shows a close match in Ontario, Canada and three distant matches in France, the UK and Albania.
  • Genetically, my closest known male relative not bearing the name Judd is Peter ten Raehe (1595-1677) of Haaksbergen, Overijssel, Netherlands. Currently working with his descendants to expand the yDNA tree further.
  • The proximity of my paternal Wiltshire ancestors to Cheddar Gorge in Somerset, combined with the knowledge that the Mesolithic remains of Cheddar Man were found there in 1903, raised an eyebrow, as his haplogroup is a precursor to my own. These days he is affectionately referred to as Uncle Ched.
  • Best maternal (mtDNA) haplogroup match according to James Lick is K1a24a, a typically Irish group; YFull expanded this to K1a24a1a, with a TMRCA of 325 ybp which is, genealogically speaking, far more useful. If the records hadn't been burned in 1922 during the Irish Civil War I'm sure that side of the family would be fully filled out by now, but with help from DNA matching I have confidence it can be pieced together eventually. There is precisely one match for that group on YFull and they don't show their oldest known ancestor, so I have to assume they're not into genealogy.

Bioinformatics

  • Trust, but verify. (Russian: Доверяй, но проверяй.)―Russian proverb
  • The following MS-Windows tools are recommended for analysis and manipulation of Whole Genome Sequence BAM files (Dante Labs, Nebula Genomics):
  • The following MS-Windows tools are recommended for analysis and manipulation of standard low resolution raw TXT files (23andMe, Ancestry, DIYDodecad, FTDNA, MyHeritage, Geno 2.0, LivingDNA):

Genomic Mapping

  • Maps codify the miracle of existence.―Nicholas Crane, Mercator: The Man Who Mapped the Planet
  • Working with Jonny Perl's DNA Painter has produced these results, arranged in order of closest relation:
  • Both Sides, confirmed
Paternal and Maternal relationships are confirmed by a FamilyTreeDNA Family Finder test match between Robert Judd and his brother Trevor Judd. Their most-recent common ancestors are Norm Judd and Joan Spaulding. Predicted relationship: Full Brother, based on sharing 2,795 cM and an X-match.
  • Paternal Side, confirmed
Paternal relationship is confirmed by an autosomal MyHeritageDNA test match between Robert Judd and his first cousin Annette Judd. Their most-recent common ancestors are Reuben Judd and Alma Toy. Predicted relationship from MyHeritageDNA: 1st cousin, based on sharing 1269 cM across 37 segments.
Paternal relationship is confirmed by a GEDmatch test match between Robert Judd GEDmatch TW8565502 and his first cousin once removed Dion Judd GEDmatch EZ3641719 of Victoria, Australia. Their most-recent common ancestors are Reuben Judd and Alma Toy. Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 2.2, based on sharing 635.6 cM in 23 segments.
Paternal relationship is confirmed by a GEDmatch test match between Robert Judd GEDmatch TW8565502 and his first cousin once removed Barbara Thompson GEDmatch ME5664003 of Victoria, Australia. Their most-recent common ancestors are William Toy and Hannah Wood. Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 2.6, based on sharing 457.1 cM in sixteen segments.
Paternal relationship is confirmed by an autosomal MyHeritageDNA test match between Robert Judd and Rodney Davis, his 2nd cousin. Their most-recent common ancestors are William Toy and Hannah Wood. Predicted relationship from MyHeritageDNA: 2nd cousin, based on sharing 274.2 cM across 14 segments.
Paternal relationship is confirmed by an autosomal MyHeritageDNA test match between Robert Judd and his second cousin Peter Rosser. Their most-recent common ancestors are William Toy and Hannah Wood. Predicted relationship from MyHeritageDNA: 2nd cousin's son, based on sharing 111.0 cM across 8 segments.
  • Maternal Side, confirmed
Maternal relationship is confirmed by a GEDmatch test match between Robert Judd GEDmatch TW8565502 and his uncle Laurie Spaulding GEDmatch SG8562999 of Victoria, Australia. Their most-recent common ancestors are Bert Spaulding and Rose Topliss. Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 1.6, based on sharing 1596.3 cM in 55 segments.
Maternal relationship is confirmed by a GEDmatch test match between Robert Judd GEDmatch TW8565502 and his first cousin Gina Spaulding GEDmatch ES5366743 of Victoria, Australia. Their most-recent common ancestors are Bert Spaulding and Rose Topliss. Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 2.14, based on sharing 748.6 cM in 32 segments.
Maternal relationship is confirmed by an autosomal MyHeritageDNA test match between Robert Judd and Andrea Hale, his 2nd cousin. Their most-recent common ancestors are George Spaulding and Mary Byrne. Predicted relationship from MyHeritageDNA: half 1st cousin, based on sharing 432.3 cM across 13 segments.
Maternal relationship is confirmed by a GEDmatch test match between Robert Judd GEDmatch TW8565502 and his second cousin Judith Dyster GEDmatch KC9697109 of South Australia. Their most-recent common ancestors are George Spaulding and Mary Byrne. Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 3.0, based on sharing 220.2 cM in eleven segments.
Maternal relationship is confirmed by an autosomal MyHeritageDNA test match between Robert Judd and Len Simms, his 3rd cousin . Their most-recent common ancestors are Thomas Joseph Hewitt and Johanna Sheehan. Predicted relationship from MyHeritageDNA: 3rd cousin, based on sharing 107.2 cM across 4 segments.
Maternal relationship is confirmed by an autosomal MyHeritageDNA test match between Robert Judd and Mary Thompson, his 3rd cousin. Their most-recent common ancestors are James Spaulding and Abigail Smith. Predicted relationship from MyHeritageDNA: 3rd cousin, based on sharing 106.7 cM across 6 segments.
Maternal relationship is confirmed by an autosomal MyHeritageDNA test match between Robert Judd and Warren Smith, his 3rd cousin. Their most-recent common ancestors are Henry Byrne and Margery Norris. Predicted relationship from MyHeritageDNA: 3rd cousin, based on sharing 69.1 cM across 5 segments.
Maternal relationship is confirmed by a GEDmatch test match between Rob Judd GEDmatch TW8565502 and his half second cousin once removed Ed Jacobs GEDmatch YU7062272. Their most-recent common ancestors are Thomas Joseph Hewitt and Johanna Sheehan. Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 3.9, based on sharing 60.6 cM in three segments.
Maternal relationship is confirmed by an autosomal MyHeritageDNA test match between Robert Judd and Patricia Turner, his 3rd cousin. Their most-recent common ancestors are James Spaulding and Abigail Smith. Predicted relationship from MyHeritageDNA: 3rd-4th cousin, based on sharing 56.5 cM across 3 segments.
Maternal relationship is confirmed by an autosomal MyHeritageDNA test match between Robert Judd and Helen Herbert, his 3rd cousin. Their most-recent common ancestors are James Spaulding and Abigail Smith. Predicted relationship from MyHeritageDNA: 4th cousin, based on sharing 46.3 cM across 3 segments.
Maternal relationship is confirmed by a GEDmatch test match between Robert Judd GEDmatch TW8565502 and his third cousin Nan Hewitt GEDmatch GK3408760 of Western Australia. Their most-recent common ancestors are Thomas Joseph Hewitt and Johanna Sheehan. Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 4.8, based on sharing 17.8 cM in two segments.
Maternal relationship is confirmed by a triangulated group on GEDmatch consisting of Robert Judd, Kathy Rogers (3C1R), and Jenn Joyce (3C1R), who share a 19.6 cM segment on chromosome 12. The most-recent common ancestors shared by all three are James Spaulding and Abigail Smith.
Maternal relationship is confirmed by a triangulated group on GEDmatch consisting of Robert Judd, Samantha Langrope (3C2R), and Robert Tilt (2C), who share a 14.0 cM segment on chromosome 21. The most-recent common ancestors shared by all three are James Spaulding and Abigail Smith.
Maternal relationship is confirmed by a triangulated group consisting of Robert Judd GEDmatch TW8565502 of NSW, Australia, Alfred Pride (4C2R) GEDmatch A797366 of Saskatchewan, Canada and Keith Cartmale (4C2R) of Birmingham, UK who share 31.8 cM in two segments on chromosome 3. The most-recent common ancestors shared by all three are Henry Spalding and Mary Ellis.
  • Paternal Side, suggested
Paternal relationship is suggested by a GEDmatch test match between Robert Judd GEDmatch TW8565502 and his third cousin once removed Kathleen Mary Wood GEDmatch GH4173242 of Dunedin, New Zealand. Their most-recent common ancestors are William James Wood and Mary Ann Bailey. Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 3.9, based on sharing 63.6 cM in four segments. Triangulation advised before full confirmation.
Paternal relationship is suggested by a GEDmatch test match between Robert Judd GEDmatch TW8565502 and his third cousin once removed Barrie Mair GEDmatch SP1006443 of Queensland, Australia. Their most-recent common ancestors are William James Wood and Mary Ann Bailey. Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 4.1, based on sharing 50.3 cM in two segments. Triangulation advised before full confirmation.
Paternal relationship is suggested by a GEDmatch test match between Robert Judd GEDmatch TW8565502 and his third cousin once removed Laraine Burton GEDmatch BQ8712674 of Victoria, Australia. Their most-recent common ancestors are William James Wood and Mary Ann Bailey. Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 4.1, based on sharing 49.8 cM in five segments. Triangulation advised before full confirmation.
Paternal relationship is suggested by a GEDmatch test match between Robert Judd GEDmatch TW8565502 and his fifth cousin David Calvert GEDmatch MZ4563993 of Tasmania, Australia. Their most-recent common ancestors are William Wood and Sarah Bassett. Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 7.2, based on sharing 8.2 cM in one segment. Triangulation advised before full confirmation.
Paternal relationship is suggested by a GEDmatch test match between Robert Judd GEDmatch TW8565502 and his fifth cousin John McLaren GEDmatch T694516 of NSW, Australia. Their most-recent common ancestors are William Denham and Mary Philips. Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 7.5, based on sharing 7.1 cM in one segment. Triangulation advised before full confirmation.
Paternal relationship is suggested by a GEDmatch test match between Robert Judd GEDmatch TW8565502 and his seventh cousin once removed Dorothy Hayman GEDmatch DC7986542 of Ontario, Canada. Their most-recent common ancestors are Thomas Knight and Margaret Edmeads. Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 4.3, based on sharing 36.8 cM in two segments. Triangulation advised before full confirmation.
Paternal relationship is suggested by a GEDmatch test match between Robert Judd GEDmatch TW8565502 and his eighth cousin once removed James Hummel GEDmatch A688551 of California, USA. Their most-recent common ancestors are John Moyle and Mary John. Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 4.4, based on sharing 32.9 cM in two segments. Triangulation advised before full confirmation.
Paternal relationship is suggested by a GEDmatch test match between Robert Judd GEDmatch TW8565502 and his ninth cousin Nicole Baker GEDmatch DX9098726 of Iowa, USA. Their most-recent common ancestors are Nicholas Trengrowse and Charitie Watty. Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 6.9, based on sharing 8.5 cM in one segment. Triangulation advised before full confirmation.
Paternal relationship is suggested by a GEDmatch test match between Robert Judd GEDmatch TW8565502 and his ninth cousin once removed Mike Judd GEDmatch RZ5033682 of Arizona, USA. Their most-recent common male ancestor is George Judd (1610-1686). Estimated number of generations to MRCA = Unknown, based on sharing 105.2 cM in thirty small segments, many of which triangulate with known relatives, and a low resolution Y match. Mike took a Dante Labs WGS in Jul 2023 and the results should be available at the end of September.
  • Maternal Side, suggested
Maternal relationship is suggested by an autosomal MyHeritageDNA test match between Robert Judd and Daphne Gibbings, his 4th cousin. Their most-recent common ancestors are Henry Spalding and Mary Ellis. Predicted relationship from MyHeritageDNA: 4th-5th cousin, based on sharing 46.1 cM in 2 segments. Triangulation advised before full confimation.
Maternal relationship is suggested by a GEDmatch test match between Robert Judd GEDmatch TW8565502 and his fourth cousin Judith Matthews GEDmatch MY5132483 of Victoria, Australia. Their most-recent common ancestors are William Smith and Martha Sheldrack. Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 4.7, based on sharing 22.3 cM in two segments. Triangulation advised before full confimation.

Advance Directive

  • We owe respect to the living; to the dead we owe only truth.―Voltaire
  • To aid WikiTree in the administration of my account should I become permanently incapacitated, or in the event of my death, I hereby give permission for all private profiles I'm managing to be transferred to the following WikiTreers, whether or not they are currently on the Trusted Lists:

Only the Trusted List can access the following:

  • Robert's formal name
  • nicknames
  • e-mail address
  • exact birthdate
  • birth location
  • private siblings' names
  • private children's names (1)

For access to Robert Judd's full information you must be on Robert's Trusted List. Please login.

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DNA Connections for Robert: 9

It may be possible to confirm family relationships. Paternal line Y-chromosome DNA test-takers:
  • Robert Judd: Y-Chromosome Test 780 markers, haplogroup I2a1b2a2c, MitoYDNA ID Z10498
Maternal line mitochondrial DNA test-takers:
  • Robert Judd: Mitochondrial DNA Test Full Sequence, haplogroup K1a24a1a, MitoYDNA ID Z10516
It is likely that these autosomal DNA test-takers will share some percentage of DNA with Robert: Have you taken a DNA test? If so, login to add it. If not, see our friends at Ancestry DNA.

G2G Forum


Comments on Robert Judd: 6


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Sands-1865
Kay (Sands) Knight
Dear Robert,


The Profile Improvement Project (PIP) is performing a check-in with project members. Please review the following and respond to let us know that you are content with your current team or if you would like to be more involved.

You're currently identified as a member of the Biography Team. The Biography Team works on profiles from their watchlist and other profiles that interest them.

There are currently three participant PIP Teams -- The Category Team, the Unknowns Team, and the Biography Team. See the Profile Improvement Project Teams for a brief outline of each team.

Are you happy with the Team you are on? If you are interested in working with a different Team, please let us know.

Kay

posted by Kay (Sands) Knight

Walmsley-632
Roy Walmsley
Hi Robert,

I sent you a message a couple of weeks ago about the England Project's annual check-in with project members. I haven't heard back from you. I hope all is well.

If you could send me a quick message to confirm whether you are still interested in the project and wish to remain an active project member, that would be great. We ask all project members to reply to our annual check-in as a requirement of membership.

Thank you again for supporting the England Project's goals!

Roy Walmsley, on behalf of the England Project leadership

posted by Roy Walmsley

Judd-3112
Robert Judd
Hi Roy,

These days I only log in to respond to changes made to my tree, including people who want merges. Since I'm essentially inactive you may delete me from the project if you wish.

Rob

posted by Robert Judd

Walmsley-632
Roy Walmsley
Hello Robert,

Thanks for your response. I'll pass it on to the project leaders. Roy

posted by Roy Walmsley

Walmsley-632
Roy Walmsley
Hi Robert,

Thank you for supporting the England Project and our mission to make every single English profile the very best it can be. It's been another successful year for the England Project!

The England Project's leadership team likes to check in with all our project members at least once a year.

Are you happy to stay in your current project team/s? Or is there another team you would like to join or become more involved in?

Please reply to this message by posting a reply below or by sending me a private message. I look forward to hearing from you. Also, please let us know if you have any feedback about the direction of the project.

Thank you!

Roy, on behalf of the England Project leadership

posted by Roy Walmsley

Speed-878
I. Speed
Hello Rob,

Thank you for your commitment to the England Project and its goals in 2024! Together, we have made a significant difference to the quality of the One Big Tree, as we strive towards making English profiles the best that they can be.

I'd like to share our end-of-year 2024 Newsletter. You can read it here: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:England_Project_Newsletters We hope you enjoy reading about our many project achievements and ongoing developments.

On behalf of all the England Project Leaders, I wish you all the best for a peaceful, productive and enjoyable 2025!

Ian, England Project Leader

posted by I. Speed



Play this week's Thanksgiving Connection Checkers game: Robert is 17 degrees from William Bradford, 18 degrees from Francis Billington, 18 degrees from Mary Brewster, 18 degrees from Elizabeth Howland, 17 degrees from Priscilla Alden, 17 degrees from Henry Samson, 19 degrees from Constance Snow, 18 degrees from George Soule, 18 degrees from Myles Standish, 18 degrees from Elizabeth Warren, 29 degrees from Massasoit Wampanoag and 19 degrees from Edward Winslow

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