Sleaze Roxx: Winger: Gets Real

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WINGER: GETS REAL:

RIP Magazine, October 1990
By Katherine Turman

Kip Winger is a changed man. It wasn't a sudden epiphany. Rather, it was the result of putting out a debut album, having considerable success and, inevitably, some criticism--then analyzing the whole scenario. Yep, for a pop icon, Kip is a man given to serious thought.

Picking up a magazine lying on the coffee table of Enterprise Studios in Burbank, California, Kip opens it to a photo of a generic, brown-maned, teased-hair rock god. "This guy looks like me last year. This is not me," he states flatly. "The stuff I wore last year came directly out of how I worked the stage; that whole ripped-up-T-shirt kind of vibe. But I don't wake up and dress like that."

So has Kip become an artiste? No, it's just that he seems to have come to the realization that what Winger is doing is permanent--etched on vinyl, disc, video and people's minds for eternity--and it damn well better represent him the way he wants to be remembered. "The whole thing about what to wear is just like...forget that. I'm not into that anymore, you know."

But isn't rock 'n' roll all an illusion, all about image?

"I don't think so," concludes Kip. "Especially not anymore. You've got to work to make yourself look like this. If all you have is your look, then that's okay to do that. But we've gone in the direction of...well, we're more concerned with what we sound like and what we're saying now than what we look like. I used to dress up and pretend to be a rock star when I was a kid. Now, the word rock star does not even exist in my vocabulary. I think Paul Stanley with the makeup on is the best rock star that could have ever been. He did it better than anyone could ever do it. But that whole day and age is kind of gone. I think kids respond to what's real. That's why Metallica and Guns and all of those bands are so huge."

Kip sounds like he's, well, grown up a bit--not that he was ever especially frivolous, though during our first interview, well over a year ago, he was quite a bit looser, less serious, and spouting Spinal Tap jokes at every turn. "I don't feel young," he explains. "Once I wanted so badly to lie about my age, but the truth is that I don't feel young, and my experiences don't lend themselves to things of somebody who's young. I'm 28, and my humor comes out of my experience, more tongue in cheek.

"A lot of people say I have three different distinct moods," he continues, "and goofy is definitely one of them. Last time we talked...maybe part of it was just feeling uncomfortable with going, 'Okay, here's how I feel. Ready? Go,' Actually, I was like, 'God, I can't tell anyone how I feel, because I don't want to sound like a preachy asshole.' It's not like I'm a preachy asshole, but part of me is."

The bass-playing vocalist wants the world to know that Winger's second release, In the Heart of the Young, is the real Kip, with the true personality of the band showing through--though he claims he regrets none of his work to date. Every song on the album is personal. In the way that the debut dealt predominantly with the feelings associated with romance, this album is more introspective, dealing with global issues on a personal level, and is more of a collaborative band effort. Once again, it was produced by longtime pal Beau Hill. "While everything's a personal release, I also try to find ways to generalize it, so people can dig it," he notes. "I think I've done that really well on this album. This is Winger. The last album was four guys who knew each other before, who all wanted to be in a band together and had a vision about a band. They put it together, it happened to click, sold X amount of records, and they were really lucky. This is Winger, this new album. This says it."

Though there is a theme running through In the Heart of the Young, it's not a conceptual album. "It starts with a song called 'In the Day We'll Never See.' This is the chorus: 'In the day we'll never see/We're getting closer to the day we'll never see/The rising sun, it's setting in the day we'll never see/They crucify while you stand by/You hear the call, don't blink an eye/Where will you go?' "

Though heavy, Kip claims the album is overwhelmingly positive. "The album ends with the future of all. We'll survive. The statement is that it's the kid, the youthfulness, that's going to get us through this," he explains. In his introspection, he's also learned the necessity of being responsible, and especially admitting to responsibility and/or guilt. "I think that the youth of today is a total reaction to the elders. A great example is the mayor of Washington, D.C., getting busted for crack," he begins. "Most of these things...people are all guilty of this, but it just depends on who has the balls to stand up and say, 'Yeah, I am guilty of this.' It's a hard thing to accept responsibility, but it's the only thing to do. I feel like my whole life has been trying to figure it out. I'm just telling you what I think. I mean, no one has to buy into this bullshit. Now it's okay, because I understand who I am and what I'm talking about and what I'm doing, and I have a little bit more of a responsible sense than some people do--and not as much as others! But there's a song called 'You Are the Saint, I Am the Sinner,' which is a direct reaction to the statement I just made.

"Then I have this song called 'Baptized by Fire,' which is one of the more obscure songs on the album," he continues. "I do a rap, if you can believe it, on here. I've got a newfound respect for rap, because it was really, really hard. I wanted to make this statement, so I had to put it in guys talking to girls, because that was the only way I could make it work. It's like, 'Girl, I know you're for the money/Flesh for gold, diamond and fur/We've seen you working on/Every guy in this town/Tradin' your voodoo/For the bible of who's who.' That's a direct experience of me living in LA, man, you know. It's the classic L.A. bimbo."

Kip's had other eye-opening realizations during his 20 years in the music biz. He knows the road to MTV is paved with bands who feel that their music "is not serious. They feel, 'This is just singing a bunch of words, trying to get the chicks, going out on the road, trying to get whoopie shit.' That's why guys start out thinking that they want to be in a rock band," he believes. "But I'm different in that way. When I got there, all of a sudden I was faced with realizing I'm not like that."

But aren't all rockers, by nature, egotistical to some extent?

"Yeah, no...I mean your whole thing in the beginning is that you want to be in a rock band and you want everyone to pay attention to you and all that. Now I don't want people to pay attention to me [laughs] except when I'm onstage. I'll only be in the public eye if it's worth it. You know what I mean? If the public thinks I'm worth it. If the public thinks we have something here. If they don't, I won't."

He's philosophical, partially out of confidence, partially out of mental health. "It's really the only way you can be, or you'll drive yourself insane going, 'Are my boots cool enough? Is my hair going to sell this album?' You can't rely on tangibles. And in terms of just being on vinyl, I think this was my 12th piece."

Though Kip may be philosophical about success, In the Heart of the Young has obviously been a cathartic experience for him, which is why the lyrics and Kip's explanations of them are so intense--and why he probably cares more about success than he'll admit. The song "Under One Condition" will probably be the album's first ballad, and was inspired by Kip's girlfriend, model Rachel Hunter. "Actually, this song is very haunting to me, because I screwed her over, kind of," Kip says, looking slightly uncomfortable. "We've been going out on and off for over a year, and we've only just managed to get it together in the last few months to where we really know it's happening. We know it's really good. But in the song, it goes, 'She stares at the sky/Wondering why the night isn't telling her, "Believe him"/But if he could only read to her the pages of his heart/She could see they feel the same.' And I do feel the same. It's so hard to explain that to anybody"

More contemplative Kip-isims are found in the epic song "The Rainbow in the Rose," which he describes as "just kind of searching for your own theory on life, I guess." He nicked the title from a song by a seminal band known as the Wumblys. "When I was growing up in Denver, they were king. They ruled, man. It's actually Randy Castillo's old band. Well, they did this song called 'The Rainbow in the Rose.' The song was a piece of shit, but the title was always awesome."

At this point we're joined in the studio by keyboardist Paul Taylor, who chimes in about the song. "He was working on it all year. Every time I'd see him at the tape recorder, I'd say, 'What are you doing?' And he's like, 'What do you think?' "

"Yeah, it took like seven months," Kip says, "and it went through eight or nine different arrangements. It's the total introspective...I just hope that people who listen to it can apply it to themselves, like the phrase, 'Somewhere the spirit shines/Like the moonlight/I move on,' reminds me of something Bono would write."

There's a balance--or at least one song--on the album that takes more of a devil-may-care approach, both lyrically and musically. But it, too, serves a purpose. "Loosen Up" is actually a reminder to Kip not to get too serious ("I need to loosen up/I need a little juicin' up"), and he describes it, musically, as a cross between Def Leppard, Bon Jovi and Kix. While the music biz gets incredibly intense, and pressure builds up, "It's also just pressure from driving in traffic, you know what I mean?" says Kip. "The only way I don't think you would feel pressure from the outside world is if you moved to a log cabin somewhere. Then all you've got to do is drive down to the A&P; and get some food, and you're fine."

Well, in any case, Winger's work with the album is done. With any luck, they'll have gigs "from now until the end of time." Their destiny now rests in the hands of fate, which is spelled F-A-N-S. "Our public takes care of our future for us," notes Taylor.

"This record is heavier in some ways...and it's more progressive in some ways," concludes Kip. "Hopefully, we're staying true enough to ourselves that it'll work."

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