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Amanpour
Interview with Former U.S. Deputy Special Middle East Coordinator Aaron David Miller; Interview with Washington Institute for Near East Policy Senior Fellow and Former Palestinian Negotiator Ghaith Al-Omari. Aired 1-1:05p ET
Aired September 29, 2025 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:00]
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, and welcome to "Amanpour." Here's what's coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: We're working with President Trump's team, actually as we speak, and I hope we can make it a go.
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GOLODRYGA: A new plan for post-war Gaza? As Netanyahu faces White House pressure to end the war, I speak to the Washington Institute's Ghaith Al-
Omari alongside former U.S.-Middle East negotiator Aaron David Miller.
Then, devastation in Gaza. A special report on a beloved Palestinian teacher trapped under the rubble of an Israeli strike.
Also, ahead --
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JAMES COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: There are costs to standing up to Donald Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: -- the indictment of former FBI Director James Comey. I ask conservative lawyer Gregg Nunziata how this could be a turning point for
the rule of law in America.
Plus, all hail the technocracy. Wired Magazine's Katie Drummond tells Hari Sreenivasan why she's dedicating an issue to Trump and America's tech
titans.
Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Bianna Golodryga in New York sitting in for Christiane Amanpour.
An increasingly isolated Israeli leader and American president desperate for a deal. It is the fourth meeting between Prime Minister Benjamin
Netanyahu and President Donald Trump in just a matter of months, and the stakes couldn't be higher. An optimistic President Trump is hoping to get
Israel on board with his proposal to end the war in Gaza, which will enter its third-year next month.
The 21-point plan reportedly involves a permanent ceasefire, the return of all the hostages, and sets out a roadmap for a post-war Gaza that would
allow Palestinians to remain there, a significant shift by the Trump administration. Yet it comes just days after Prime Minister Netanyahu vowed
to, quote, "finish the job on Hamas" in a defiant speech to the United Nations.
So, could we really be nearing the final stages of this war? Ghaith Al- Omari is a senior fellow for the Washington Institute and a former Palestinian negotiator, and he joins me now alongside former Middle East
peace negotiator for the U.S. State Department Aaron David Miller. Welcome, both of you.
Listen, let's start by saying this is a humbling moment for us. We've been here many times before as we've been close to a deal, and yet, we haven't
seen one finalized. It does appear that things are a bit more optimistic, at least from President Trump and his advisers.
And in the last hour, Aaron, I just spoke with Amit Segal, an Israeli reporter who is quite well-sourced within Prime Minister Netanyahu's orbit,
who believes that Prime Minister Netanyahu, for the most part, has signed off on this deal as well. Obviously, all is missing is Hamas. But when you
have the Arab countries and Muslim countries also agreeing to this deal that further isolates Hamas, do you see this as the closest we've been to
bringing this war to an end?
AARON DAVID MILLER, FORMER U.S. DEPUTY SPECIAL MIDDLE EAST COORDINATOR: You know, I mean, I think that's right, Bianna. I think for any number of
reasons, we're closer than ever. Whatever is a very elusive concept, each of these 21 points, let's assume just half of them, half of them constitute
-- each one a universe, literally, a universe of complexity and detail that needs to be worked out. So, if you ask me, are we on the cusp of ending the
war in Gaza, which is the headline that Donald Trump will probably announce, the trend lines, on the other hand, foreshadow enormous,
galactically difficult challenges ahead. And the question is whether or not Hamas, even if it says yes, in principle, and Benjamin Netanyahu, yes, in principle, is committed and
whether or not President Trump is prepared, as he must be, if this is going to work, to own this and literally to preside and monitor and impose
consequences in the event implementation does not proceed.
So, again, encouraged, I hope so. Worked for Democrats and Republicans and voted for them, hope so. But I think you're talking about a lot of very,
very difficult negotiation ahead.
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GOLODRYGA: And, Ghaith, let me get you to weigh in as well, because CNN is now confirming what Axios had first reported just moments ago, and that is
that in this meeting between President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu, Prime Minister Netanyahu called the prime minister of Qatar and apologized
for that failed assassination attempt against Hamas leadership in Qatar, an unprecedented strike by the Israelis, all of this in an effort to get Qatar
to put more pressure on Hamas to agree to a deal.
How do Palestinians, both in leadership and public, interpret this choreography at this point? Do they feel that a deal is within reach?
GHAITH AL-OMARI, SENIOR FELLOW, WASHINGTON INSTITUTE FOR NEAR EAST POLICY AND FORMER PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: Thank you. I actually -- I mean, I
think everyone is cautiously optimistic, and I want to focus on cautiously. Because we've heard a lot of optimism in the past, and much of it came to
nothing. But I do believe that there is a different momentum right now, and everyone has to make very difficult decisions.
I mean, the Israelis have to make difficult decisions, but also so do the Palestinians. For example, the Palestinian Authority wanted to come and
rule Gaza. It's very clear from the 21 points that it's not going to happen. Hamas, which wanted more favorable terms, is very clear from the 21
points that it will have no role in Gaza after. So, I think the public is cautiously optimistic, but I believe that everyone is going to be playing
games.
I am personally more optimistic because of one thing that you said. It's not only that the U.S. is on board right now, we have countries like Turkey
and Qatar who are on board, and they have tremendous leverage vis-a-vis Hamas.
GOLODRYGA: So, let's say that a deal is reached. The war comes to an end. Hopefully, the hostages are all returned. I mean, these are all big ifs,
Ghaith. Do you think that Hamas -- and I'd like to play sound for you from one of the surviving members of Hamas leadership that Jeremy Diamond, my
colleague, just interviewed last week in defiance, was pushing back on this notion that Hamas would somehow relinquish power and lay down its arms?
Here's what he said.
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GHAZI HAMAD, SENIOR HAMAS LEADER: Hamas is part of the Palestinian fabric. You could not exclude Hamas. But as I said again and again, regarding the
ruling of Gaza, we are ready to be out of the ruling of Gaza. We have no problem with this. The arm of Hamas is a legitimate and legal weapon which
is used all the time against occupation. It is not a terrorist weapon.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: How does this war end? Because over the course of our conversation, I've seen very little that
suggests any willingness on your part to compromise.
HAMAD: I think it is easy. I think Mr. Trump and the world could ask Netanyahu in order to stop the war, to stop the genocide in Gaza.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOLODRYGA: Ghaith, your response to that statement, which I would imagine is a nonstarter for not only Prime Minister Netanyahu but the president as
well, the sense that obviously the idea of relinquishing Hamas is one thing, and that may be something that that's impossible to do. But the fact
that there would be some arms that they still possess in a future post-war, I can't imagine anyone signing off on that.
AL-OMARI: First of all, Hamas wrote itself out of the Palestinian social fabric when it chose to attack Israeli civilians two years ago and bring
the hell that Gaza has undertaken. So, Hamas is not in a position right now to kind of put political conditions.
That said, yes, Hamas ultimately can say no. But there are points of leverage on Hamas. First of all, its popularity in Gaza has plummeted,
beyond plummeted even. And most importantly, it is regionally isolated. And it's not only countries, you know, which are traditionally against Hamas
like Egypt, Saudi, et cetera, but it's Hamas' key backers, it is Qatar, it is Turkey, who are saying enough is enough and will be putting pressure.
And, frankly, part of what we see with the 21 plans is also the president creating pressure on those countries. The president already met with
President Erdogan of Turkey, spoke to the Qataris. The U.S. right now, I think, is lining up all the actors. And if Hamas says no, then Hamas will -
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