WEBVTT

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Python is taking over much of the development world as it quickly is becoming one of the,

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or simply the most, widely used programming languages.

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But that does not mean that Python is without its weaknesses.

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In my mind, there are three such weaknesses.

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Number one, GUI applications, desktop applications, that kind of thing.

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Number two, a native general purpose mobile app for iOS and Android framework that we can

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build that in Python.

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And number three, deployment.

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So that is a single binary or set of binary and resource files that I can send either

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to a mobile device or to a desktop app or to a server.

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And it just runs regardless of what they have installed on their system.

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This episode is primarily about number one, the GUI frameworks.

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One of the best frameworks out there looking to make Python a better language for desktop

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applications is Qt, namely Qt for Python.

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This week, you'll meet Christian Mareria Fredes from Qt to tell us all about the revitalization

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of Qt in the Python space.

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But you'll also learn they have aspirations to make Qt for Python an option for mobile

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app development and to solve the deployment problem as well.

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That hits all three of the weak spots I was telling you about.

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We could only be rooting for them to solve these problems.

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This is Talk Python To Me, episode 183, recorded October 10th, 2018.

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Welcome to Talk Python To Me, a weekly podcast on Python, the language, the libraries, the ecosystem

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and the personalities.

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This is your host, Michael Kennedy.

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Follow me on Twitter where I'm @mkennedy.

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Keep up with the show and listen to past episodes at talkpython.fm and follow the show on Twitter

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via at Talk Python.

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Christian, welcome to Talk Python To Me.

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Thank you very much.

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It's great to have you here.

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I'm very much looking forward to talking about Python GUIs, something I would love to spread

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the word about, something I would like to see more options for.

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And it seems like you are doing great work around that.

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Yeah, totally.

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I mean, that's why I'm here.

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I mean, Qt for Python is something kind of new for the Qt project itself.

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So I'm looking forward to discuss more things about it.

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Yeah, exactly.

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It seems like there's a real revitalization around that project, which is awesome.

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Before we get to that, though, let's start with your story.

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How did you get into programming in Python?

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Well, everything started when I started in the university.

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I had no knowledge of programming whatsoever.

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I still remember the first class on the blackboard.

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There was an X equals to X plus one.

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It made no mathematical sense to me.

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And yeah, it was mainly in C.

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But on the second year, there was some weird class talking about Python that you didn't

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know.

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And from that day on, I mean, I started to do things by myself.

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And then here I am.

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That's really awesome.

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So you had a formal computer science degree program you went through?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Back in my country, I'm from Chile.

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There is something called informatics engineer.

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So there is more like computer science, which I do a bit more of how company works and everything

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like that.

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So it's like a six year or something of study.

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Oh, that sounds like a really cool project or study, course, study.

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Yeah, totally.

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Yeah.

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And so how about today?

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What are you doing now?

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Well, we are currently approaching the official release of Qt for Python.

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So we are really excited about it.

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But of course, you will understand that there are many things to do.

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So we are, you know, I mean, today was like a normal day, something, some bucks and trying

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to bring all the features for the final release that will happen at the end of the year.

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I'm very excited for that.

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So you work for the Qt company that makes Qt.

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Yes.

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Yeah, exactly.

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I recently, well, not recently, at the beginning of this year, I am here currently in Berlin.

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I was doing my PhD here.

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And then I decided to move it back to industry.

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So I started to work for the Qt company because I was aware of it.

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I mean, since like 2009 or something, I had some small projects and I was really curious about it, what they were doing.

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And there was this opening, I apply and I started to work here in the Qt company.

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Excellent.

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So I guess a good place to start is just what is Qt?

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Because we have things like PySide and PyQt and Qt for Python.

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But Qt is a UI framework much larger than just Python, right?

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Right.

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I mean, to be honest, I mean, when I first started to work in Qt, for me, it was just a library to do interfaces, right?

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So, but with all the other years of experience, I started to notice that it's really more than a cross-platform application framework.

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And I mean, I noticed that even for C++ users, you are able to write some scripts and combine and have some tools for SQL or any like sockets and modules for everything that you can imagine.

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I mean, the modules are really a lot and the things that you can do are really imaginable.

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So let me see if I have my conception correct.

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Yeah, I'll bounce this off you.

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You let me know.

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So for me, it seems like Qt is a framework for building cross-platform applications.

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Much of that is GUI, but there's also things like custom threading things and, like you said, other libraries as well.

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Is that a pretty good summary?

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Yeah, I don't know.

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That's a good summary.

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That's a summary when I start my talks.

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All right, perfect.

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Yeah, so I guess I have a pretty good conception of it.

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And I feel like the apps built in Qt are really nice because they seem like they belong on the OS or platform they're running on.

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I feel like so many of these cross-platform things just stand out like a sore thumb.

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One, a lot of them look like they're from, like, you know, 1990.

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The other is you're like, whoa, that's not what a button looks like on macOS or on Windows or whatever it happens to be here on, right?

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Exactly.

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Yeah, my first experience, for example, I remember when I was learning Python, I wanted to do some simple application.

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I tried to use TK, you know, TK Inter.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I admire the work, but, I mean, Inter interface doesn't look really well there.

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And then I started to move around and everything.

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And, of course, I'm aware that you know that, for example, one of the biggest projects that uses Qt is KDE.

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And at least when I started with Linux, it was the most, like, you know, graphical appealing environment for me.

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So, yeah.

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Yeah, that's really nice.

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That's really great.

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So, let's bring this conversation over to Python now.

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And maybe we could do a quick tour of what are our options for building Python GUIs at all.

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I mean, you brought up TK Inter.

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Well, obviously, we have Qt for Python nowadays.

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There's other things like WX Python.

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Do you want to give us a quick tour of what our options are?

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Well, I mean, you mentioned, like, the main ones, right?

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I mean, if you go into the Wiki page, for example, you can see that the list is, like, over 30 different modules to do different things.

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But, of course, not all of them are active now.

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So, personally, the ones that I am aware of that they are currently developed are, like, TK Inter.

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I mean, the WX Python.

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There is also PyQt, another set of bindings for Qt.

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And also, there is another one called, what's the name, Kiwi, that also, lately, I have heard a lot of Hacker News and Reddit.

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So, I think it is quite becoming a little bit famous.

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Yeah, that's good.

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Yeah, Kiwi's doing good stuff.

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I feel like it's really focused on more on, like, game experiences.

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And something like Qt, you could build, you know, a traditional application, right?

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You could build Visual Studio Code or PyCharm or a web browser or something like that.

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Yeah, I mean, as you can see, at the beginning, of course, for me, KDE was the biggest and only project.

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But with the time, I mean, you can notice that nowadays, with all this data science boom, you can find, like, tools like Tableau, for example, that is written in using Qt or the latest version of VirtualBox and VLC.

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I'm not even there.

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I mean, because she's enjoying the company.

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I noticed that, okay, I mean, when I was saying that this is a company, I mean, do we have other clients or outside, you know, open source project?

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And I noticed that, for example, many companies in the automotive industry are using it right now.

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I mean, of course, since we're in Germany, there's Mercedes.

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And also lately, Peugeot announced something like that.

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They were including Qt.

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But most importantly, at least for me, for my geek standards, the cockpit of the Tesla car, for example, is designed using one of the Q technologies.

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So that was really impressive.

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Yeah, it was really impressive for me.

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Yeah, Tesla is definitely one of the more, you know, turned on car companies in terms of technology.

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So that's pretty awesome.

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Yeah.

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And you also have, you said that it's in LG smart TVs.

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Is that right?

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Yeah.

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I mean, also, I mean, there is a couple of these TVs that have some manual.

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I don't know how to describe it, but it's on the button that you have, like, different elements of the menu and stuff.

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And that's also written with Qt.

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And there is also some entertainment system by different electronic companies.

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And, I mean, this is not just the official clients of Qt, right?

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I mean, you know, it's an open source project also.

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So there are many companies out there.

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And luckily, on the latest conference that I went, for example, I met people of the biggest companies that approached me as,

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ah, yes, we are using Qt for some internal project and everything.

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So, of course, we have a lot of open source clients, too.

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That's really cool.

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I've talked to some companies even thinking about using it for devices, little embedded devices and stuff.

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Yeah.

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That's really a hard topic right now.

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And, I mean, I didn't have the luck yet to work on embedded systems, but there is a lot of people doing a lot of work on embedded devices.

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So, and every time that there are conferences, I mean, those are the things that steal the show.

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I mean, all these embedded systems that we have in comparison with other technologies.

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But, yeah, sadly, I am not an expert on that field, but maybe next time we can go further.

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Yeah, that'd be great.

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Yeah, it feels like Kickstarter should be involved.

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A little cute, a little Kickstarter.

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Yeah.

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And something awesome could be launched.

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Yeah.

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Very, very cool.

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So, the reason I reached out to you guys is we did this overview of the various GUI options.

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And, you know, those folks who listen to my other podcast, Python Bytes, know that we've gone over so many options.

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And there are a bunch of them.

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But I feel like, like I said, Qt is one of the more, it looks native and it seems like you can build really nice apps with it.

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But for a while, there had been this, I don't know, this sort of almost discontent where we had, what, PySide?

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We had PySide 2.

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Yeah.

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You know, PyQt for Qt 4 and then Qt 5.

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And it was like, well, what is the license model?

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What one is up to date?

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What should we do?

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Can you just sort of let us know, you know, why did you guys work on Qt for Python?

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And, you know, what is the state of that whole conversation there?

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Yeah, well, I mean, the story is a little bit longer, but it mainly started with like, there was some collaborations of Qt in a different country.

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I think it was Brazil.

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And they decided to start a new set of bindings for Qt.

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And the PySide project was born.

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And then...

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Maybe just find that real quick for folks.

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Like when you say binding, what do you mean?

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These are like Python libraries that we can use in Python, but they talk to the C API?

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Exactly.

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There is some CPython code that will be like connected to C libraries.

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So that's why we can expose this C++ framework to Python world.

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So we have some glue in the middle that maybe later we can discuss.

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But yeah, I mean, I know that it's confusing about the names, but I mean, it's really depending on the changes of the Qt projects.

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Because, I mean, there was some Nokia related things going on in the middle.

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And then there was like no Nokia.

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And then the project started to evolve.

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The Qt was Qt 4 back then.

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And then they said, okay, but now it's Qt 5.

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So what do we do?

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And there was some effort by the community to start to port it.

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And that's why PySide 2 was born.

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Because now there was support for Qt 5.

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But the problem is that at the company, we didn't want to focus just in the module.

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And this is really important for me to say because Qt 4 Python is not just the module.

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I mean, we have a lot of ideas and things going on that will try to complement this PySide 2 module that currently we have.

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Okay.

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That sounds very interesting.

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So where does Qt 4 Python fit?

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Is this just you taking over the PySide 2 project?

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Is this something different?

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Yeah.

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Well, that's the thing.

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I mean, at the beginning it was associated with Qt, but not officially supported.

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So now the move, all this noise that we have been generating is because we are officially supporting PySide 2 as a module in one of the Qt products.

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So that means that any person that wants to start to use Qt by open source will have the options to get PySide 2 as a module, also to play around with Python.

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Or if you're a client, for example, and you want to have some commercial license and everything, you will have the option also to get these officially supported bindings that allows you to use Qt from Python.

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That sounds awesome.

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I'm really excited to hear that you're focusing full effort on this GUI platform for Python.

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Yeah, totally.

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Yeah, it's going to be great.

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And you said the official first release of this Qt for Python update is targeted at the end of the year?

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Yeah.

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Well, at the moment, the project was being heavily developed, and we decided to give it a try.

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So we generated the first set of wheels that we released on PyPy, like in June, I think.

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But of course, this was under the technical preview label.

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So of course, use it at your own risk.

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But we are currently reaching a maturity stage that we are sure that by the end of the year, which is the release of Qt 5.12, we will include the official wheels without the technical preview tag.

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So yeah, we're really looking forward to it.

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Oh, that's going to be super cool.

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Now, you're talking about wheels.

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So that's when I pip install a thing, you know, downloads it and installs it in a nice, simple, Pythonic way.

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Exactly.

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I believe previously in the PySide, PyQt days, that was harder to basically deploy an app that was built on Qt or one of those frameworks, right?

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Right, right.

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So, go ahead.

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Yeah, no, but I mean, if you, well, even before, I mean, I don't know, I mean, I know that you have been using Python for a lot of time, but even the time with X, you remember that X was first before the wheel, it was quite complicated to generate this kind of like project and stuff.

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And I always was struggling with this.

00:14:41.820 --> 00:14:48.580
But yeah, at the moment, for example, many users ask us like how to deploy applications, how to move these things around.

00:14:48.580 --> 00:14:51.880
But yeah, we usually encourage people to use PyInstaller.

00:14:52.120 --> 00:15:02.620
So, yeah, spoiler alert, that's one of the things that we are currently working on, like to try to help the users to provide ways to deploy the application in a more easy way.

00:15:02.620 --> 00:15:12.280
Because Qt is cross-platform, so, of course, you would like to have some binary that you can, like, move around and try to execute and try to don't worry about on which platform you are running.

00:15:12.280 --> 00:15:14.780
Oh, you guys would take it up a level if you did that.

00:15:15.020 --> 00:15:23.700
I mean, if there was a build my project for macOS, build my project for Linux, and here's the thing you give your users or you put on your website.

00:15:23.700 --> 00:15:27.520
Seriously, that, I mean, you already have one of the best cross-platform frameworks.

00:15:27.520 --> 00:15:31.900
And if you could solve the deployment problem for Python, it would be all.

00:15:31.900 --> 00:15:32.560
Yeah.

00:15:32.560 --> 00:15:33.080
Yeah.

00:15:33.080 --> 00:15:34.740
There are a few options out there.

00:15:34.860 --> 00:15:43.980
I mean, currently, there was some, or a blog, there was a story of another system that was called FBS, which is a guy that we had the pleasure to talk with.

00:15:43.980 --> 00:15:53.800
And they also have some small project that is starting to attack this problem because it's really, I mean, it's like every day someone on IRC is asking about, like, how do I deploy my application?

00:15:53.800 --> 00:15:56.300
How can I integrate this with other tools and everything?

00:15:56.460 --> 00:15:59.680
Yeah, yeah, that's the Fman build system from Michael Herman.

00:15:59.680 --> 00:16:00.560
That's pretty awesome.

00:16:00.560 --> 00:16:03.200
Yeah, so that's a pretty promising project.

00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:08.620
And if you could get some sweet integration where, you know, a lot of, yeah, it seems really, really nice.

00:16:08.620 --> 00:16:10.040
And he's doing a lot of stuff with Qt.

00:16:10.040 --> 00:16:10.340
Yeah.

00:16:10.340 --> 00:16:12.100
So that's cool that you guys are talking.

00:16:12.100 --> 00:16:12.480
Yeah.

00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:23.340
I think it's already, though, it's already better that you can pip install -r requirements.txt or, you know, pip inf your world, and you just get the Qt runtime.

00:16:23.340 --> 00:16:32.380
I'm at a cute runtime, excuse me, which it doesn't mean, like, oh, go get this weird installer from some other place that you're not really sure, install that, right?

00:16:32.380 --> 00:16:34.960
It's nice to have it just come already.

00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:39.260
And if you could get, like, a true binary, then that would solve, I think that would really be something.

00:16:39.260 --> 00:16:49.280
Yeah, even internally, I mean, there were many people, I mean, since it's a longstanding company using C++, I mean, a couple of people that were recently joining the company when they first tried it.

00:16:49.280 --> 00:16:53.040
And then we said, like, I just pip installed PySight 2, and I have everything now from Python.

00:16:53.040 --> 00:16:55.000
I mean, which kind of magic is this?

00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:57.840
I mean, they were not even aware of, like, how fast can be.

00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:04.600
And I think this is one of the main reasons that why the Qt company wanted to officially support Python, right?

00:17:04.600 --> 00:17:09.140
Because, I mean, this is a podcast about Python, so we don't need to convince people about it.

00:17:09.380 --> 00:17:12.000
You would be surprised.

00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:18.820
There's a lot of people that listen that maybe Python is not their main language, or they're just getting started, and they're still exploring.

00:17:18.820 --> 00:17:19.860
You'd be surprised.

00:17:19.860 --> 00:17:32.340
So there's probably a lot of people who, you know, still, even if they've been doing Python for 20 years, maybe they're like, well, it's great for websites and backends, but I'm not going to build my UI in Python, right?

00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:34.500
So convince us, yeah, convince us by Python.

00:17:34.500 --> 00:17:36.320
I think it's great if you can do it.

00:17:36.320 --> 00:17:36.660
Yeah.

00:17:36.660 --> 00:17:41.400
Yeah, well, I mean, every single person that is touching code at some point is aware of Stack Overflow.

00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:48.500
And, for example, I remember that this year's Stack Overflow Insights were showing how popular Python was becoming.

00:17:48.500 --> 00:17:56.080
And after all these years, I remember back in the day that in the university, I was, like, there were the Perl people and the Python people.

00:17:56.080 --> 00:17:59.620
And, of course, all the Perl people are the devil, and we will not talk about Perl.

00:18:00.040 --> 00:18:14.420
But currently, you can see that even some index that, like, measure the amount of questions or, I don't know, search queries about programming, like the TOB index, for example, they were showing Python approaching the top three.

00:18:14.420 --> 00:18:15.000
Yeah.

00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:15.700
It's amazing.

00:18:15.700 --> 00:18:22.020
Not even that, not even, like, general users, because, I mean, I have also some background in academia when I was doing my PhD.

00:18:22.020 --> 00:18:28.080
I encountered that most of the old researchers were using programming languages like Fortran, for example.

00:18:28.080 --> 00:18:30.120
But all the new ones were using Python.

00:18:30.120 --> 00:18:38.480
And that's how we have now the IPython notebooks that now are called Jupyter project and all these data science-related things that it's mainly using with Python.

00:18:38.620 --> 00:18:45.680
I mean, and you cannot, like, expect for some, like, new position data science to ask for, I don't know, C or Fortran.

00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:47.380
That's really, really, really in the past.

00:18:47.380 --> 00:18:49.280
I think that's the key.

00:18:49.280 --> 00:18:54.320
This portion of Talk Python To Me is brought to you by Linode.

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00:19:46.200 --> 00:19:46.640
Yeah.

00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:52.360
Is the Q company largely a C++ organization, given that a lot of the main product is in C?

00:19:52.360 --> 00:19:53.020
Yeah.

00:19:53.020 --> 00:19:53.280
Yeah.

00:19:53.280 --> 00:19:59.360
Of course, we have some automations and internal tools, but you can find that people knowing about many other programming languages.

00:19:59.580 --> 00:20:11.760
I mean, I know that they're like also Perl experts or guys using Python for automating tasks, or maybe they have some system built with Go and everything like that.

00:20:11.760 --> 00:20:17.840
But I mean, it's the majority of the users and the community around is like purely C++ experts.

00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:18.460
Right, right.

00:20:18.460 --> 00:20:28.560
I feel like the package management aspect, you know, pip install, anti-gravity, for example, type of things, really is something that Python brings.

00:20:28.560 --> 00:20:32.120
It's so special compared to, say, C and C++, right?

00:20:32.120 --> 00:20:36.460
It's just a different level of productivity entirely.

00:20:37.380 --> 00:20:38.060
Yeah, exactly.

00:20:38.060 --> 00:20:45.580
And that's one of the reasons that we're trying to use, for example, to try to, not to convince, but to bring Python to C++ developer.

00:20:45.580 --> 00:20:49.060
I mean, how fast something could be to start something.

00:20:49.060 --> 00:20:58.860
I mean, even if you want to have a small GUI that does something with clicking some buttons, you know that in C++, at least you have writing the code, compiling the code, and executing.

00:20:58.860 --> 00:21:05.280
And if you want to skip one of these steps, which is to just write your code and execute it, I think that's really amazing.

00:21:05.280 --> 00:21:12.180
And that's one of the main reasons why I started to even spread the word about Python in general when I was studying and my PhD also.

00:21:12.180 --> 00:21:15.420
And yeah, that's the main motivation that we currently have as a company.

00:21:15.420 --> 00:21:15.960
Yeah, that's cool.

00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:16.760
I agree.

00:21:16.760 --> 00:21:17.900
I think you missed a step.

00:21:17.900 --> 00:21:20.660
It's also the figure out why that seg fault is happening.

00:21:20.660 --> 00:21:24.240
Yeah, well, that's the thing.

00:21:24.360 --> 00:21:32.060
I mean, day by day, all the people at the team is dealing with all the seg faults just to provide users for a seg fault-free environment.

00:21:32.060 --> 00:21:34.460
I mean, you know, we're combining two worlds.

00:21:34.460 --> 00:21:37.940
I mean, we have the same nightmares that sometimes have happened.

00:21:37.940 --> 00:21:40.740
And on the other side, we have all the CPython structures.

00:21:40.740 --> 00:21:42.500
So we try to combine these two things.

00:21:42.500 --> 00:21:50.720
So debugging the development of Kube for Python is challenging, but at the same time, it's a nice source of knowledge.

00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:53.680
Yeah, so let's dig into how it works a little bit.

00:21:54.040 --> 00:21:58.120
And I want to follow up on this, you know, how you bridge these two worlds.

00:21:58.120 --> 00:21:59.980
There's a lot of interesting possibilities there.

00:21:59.980 --> 00:22:01.040
Yeah.

00:22:01.040 --> 00:22:10.840
So how do we go from Qt code, Qt headers, and widgets and stuff to generating what is at code level called PySide 2?

00:22:10.840 --> 00:22:17.880
Okay, so the thing that we do is that the original idea was to extract all this information from the Qt headers.

00:22:18.140 --> 00:22:19.920
And for this, we use Clang.

00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:28.920
And also we have some internal tool that's called Shiboken that allows us to modify these headers.

00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:35.940
Because, I mean, you know, sometimes you have in C++ some void star or, you know, some double star pointers and stuff like that.

00:22:36.080 --> 00:22:40.700
So we need to manually transform all these things and bring everything to the Python world.

00:22:40.700 --> 00:22:41.140
Right.

00:22:41.140 --> 00:22:44.060
Because Python doesn't have a void star star type, right?

00:22:44.060 --> 00:22:45.140
Exactly.

00:22:45.140 --> 00:22:52.020
So we need to do some black magic inside and under the hood that allows you to use the method that includes some void star things.

00:22:52.360 --> 00:22:52.940
Yeah, for sure.

00:22:52.940 --> 00:22:59.300
Okay, so there's the C++ definition of how to directly natively work with Qt.

00:22:59.300 --> 00:23:08.680
And then use this thing called Shiboken, which generates modules that interact that are basically for CPython that can then talk to it.

00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:13.680
So are you using like CFFI or the C API?

00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:14.660
How does that work?

00:23:14.660 --> 00:23:15.360
That's the magic.

00:23:15.520 --> 00:23:22.680
I mean, back in the day when the developers started with PySty, they started to use BoostPython that personally I know that I have been using.

00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:24.600
But I don't know if you have experience with it.

00:23:24.600 --> 00:23:25.120
I have not.

00:23:25.120 --> 00:23:25.960
No, what's BoostPython?

00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:27.780
BoostPython is just the same idea.

00:23:27.780 --> 00:23:31.900
And it allows you to generate bindings for Python from some C++ project.

00:23:31.900 --> 00:23:42.560
But the problem with this is that, and it was the main problem back then, is that there is a lot of use of templates in C++, which is one of the obscure areas of C++ world.

00:23:42.740 --> 00:23:46.140
And this also increased the size of the binaries that you're generating.

00:23:46.140 --> 00:23:51.200
So the developers back then, they said, okay, what is the best solution right now?

00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:54.120
Let's write our own binding generator.

00:23:54.120 --> 00:23:59.460
So it was heavily inspiring BoostPython and trying to remove the template situation.

00:23:59.460 --> 00:24:01.900
And there is this type system thing that I mentioned.

00:24:01.900 --> 00:24:07.460
It's just a pure XML file with some directives of modifying signatures, for example, of the methods.

00:24:07.880 --> 00:24:13.640
And then you can use this to generate the CPython code that you can compile and transform in Python module.

00:24:13.640 --> 00:24:13.960
Okay.

00:24:13.960 --> 00:24:15.080
It sounds very interesting.

00:24:15.080 --> 00:24:22.480
And I recently learned that you can take this, Shavokin, and you can apply it to any C library, potentially.

00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:24.660
It's not just for Q, right?

00:24:24.660 --> 00:24:28.320
So this could be a useful tool for people who actually don't care about UIs.

00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:29.140
Yes, exactly.

00:24:29.140 --> 00:24:36.180
I mean, as soon as we started to release the official set of wheels, we started to get people like, I want to generate the bindings for my project and everything.

00:24:36.180 --> 00:24:38.280
And yeah, it's possible to.

00:24:38.280 --> 00:24:46.260
I mean, I encourage people to take a look in our blog that there was a post there to write Python bindings for a C++ project without any queue on it.

00:24:46.820 --> 00:24:50.700
So, of course, I mean, it's something that is still under development and it's open source.

00:24:50.700 --> 00:24:52.880
So there is still some incompatibilities.

00:24:52.880 --> 00:25:00.080
For example, we have some issues with templates, if your project has some templates, and also maybe smart pointers and things like that.

00:25:00.080 --> 00:25:02.780
But in general, at least for us, it do the work.

00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:10.780
And we are planning now that once the release official releases out, that the open source community will react and will help us to improve Shavokin itself.

00:25:10.780 --> 00:25:13.180
Yeah, it sounds like a really useful tool on its own.

00:25:13.180 --> 00:25:21.900
Help me understand why or how this might differ from, saying, using something like Cython or something like that.

00:25:21.900 --> 00:25:28.900
Would another reasonable path be to write part of your code in Cython and directly interact with the C part?

00:25:29.300 --> 00:25:35.180
Well, Cython is just to, at least I use it just for optimizing some Python code.

00:25:35.180 --> 00:25:42.420
But since we needed to create this bridge, you know, to have this glue between C++ and Python world, I think that the generator was needed.

00:25:42.420 --> 00:25:47.580
And there are other options like that, I mean, out there that you mentioned, for example, the CFFI.

00:25:47.580 --> 00:25:50.520
And also there is a nice, what was the name of this module?

00:25:50.520 --> 00:25:57.260
PyBind 11, that also allows you to, you know, to generate the link between these two worlds.

00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:02.100
So I think that Shavokin will be one of the nice options out there.

00:26:02.100 --> 00:26:05.960
But still, I think that we need to, there's a lot of things to be done there.

00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:06.860
Yeah, yeah, of course.

00:26:06.860 --> 00:26:07.960
Okay, interesting.

00:26:07.960 --> 00:26:11.240
Let's talk first at a high level about what some of the modules are.

00:26:11.240 --> 00:26:13.760
You touched on this a little bit, but what do we get?

00:26:13.760 --> 00:26:17.140
What do we have to work with when we work with PySide 2?

00:26:17.140 --> 00:26:24.700
Yeah, well, it's sometimes can be really overwhelming for people to meet Qt in the sense of that there are so many things to do.

00:26:24.700 --> 00:26:36.720
But I mean, for the users that are starting with generating graphical user interfaces, we have like three main modules in Qt that are, of course, exposed in Qt for Python.

00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:44.280
So the Qt core, the one that has all the like basic definitions of types and classes that you will use.

00:26:44.280 --> 00:26:53.360
And then we have some GUI elements that, for example, you can encounter there some like debase of how a widget is created.

00:26:53.360 --> 00:26:56.580
For example, pixels or, you know, lines and stuff like that.

00:26:56.780 --> 00:27:02.680
And then you have widgets, which is the more general one that exposes, you know, pre-made things.

00:27:02.680 --> 00:27:06.220
Like if you have a button, a group box, a checkbox and everything.

00:27:06.220 --> 00:27:13.180
So usually all the examples code that we currently have, most of them use these three modules for different functionalities.

00:27:13.180 --> 00:27:18.920
But a normal user, I think I will play around Qt widgets and maybe Qt core for getting a few things.

00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:19.180
Right.

00:27:19.180 --> 00:27:22.120
You also have things like Qt charts, Qt multimedia.

00:27:22.120 --> 00:27:22.820
Yeah.

00:27:22.820 --> 00:27:24.260
And testing even, right?

00:27:24.260 --> 00:27:25.640
Yeah, well, that's the thing.

00:27:25.640 --> 00:27:32.560
I mean, there are many other modules that allow you to do things with Qt that sometimes are exposed in Python natively.

00:27:32.560 --> 00:27:40.960
For example, we decided to, there is a few mathematical modules that we decided not to expose to Qt for Python directly.

00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:47.040
Because, of course, you have the math module in Python or you have any other numerical library there.

00:27:47.040 --> 00:27:47.480
Right.

00:27:47.480 --> 00:27:51.040
So, but Qt charts, for example, is the one that gets more of our attentions.

00:27:51.040 --> 00:27:57.620
At least there is a couple of nice examples in our code base that really brings people to joy to say, oh, my God, yes, it's so easy.

00:27:57.620 --> 00:28:01.980
And they can combine it with any other numerical or data sources that they have.

00:28:01.980 --> 00:28:02.780
That's cool.

00:28:02.780 --> 00:28:12.840
So if I was doing like scikit, numpy, those types of things, I could take that data and visualize it and say like a Qt chart or something like that or a Qt chart.

00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:13.900
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:28:13.900 --> 00:28:16.840
I mean, that's one of the nice things that we are doing.

00:28:16.840 --> 00:28:32.860
Of course, since all the API that we use is C++ based, we are now in a moment of defining like how to break this API, but not in a bad sense, but in the sense of like bringing Qt for Python in a more compatible way for Python world.

00:28:32.860 --> 00:28:43.440
So nowadays, for example, there is a lot of research being done of like allowing numpy or scipy types into Qt methods and classes.

00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:48.200
No, that is awesome because it's in C, in numpy, for example, right?

00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:52.800
Like why does it have to go into Python, then back out into another C layer, right?

00:28:52.800 --> 00:28:56.140
Like if you could just say, hey, you're all down there, figure that out.

00:28:56.140 --> 00:28:57.060
Yeah, exactly.

00:28:57.060 --> 00:29:06.860
That's the thing that we need to see what is underneath all these amazing numpy arrays and see how we can make it compatible with the signatures of the method, for example.

00:29:06.860 --> 00:29:07.940
And pandas and whatnot.

00:29:07.940 --> 00:29:08.840
Yeah, that's really cool.

00:29:08.840 --> 00:29:09.160
Yeah, exactly.

00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:09.640
Yeah.

00:29:09.640 --> 00:29:10.020
All right.

00:29:10.020 --> 00:29:17.420
So one of the things that really appeals to me with building GUI applications is a visual designer.

00:29:17.420 --> 00:29:28.040
I know you can write code and I know you can specify it out, but being able to say, here's a button, I'm going to put that button next to that input box, you know, and just drag it there.

00:29:28.040 --> 00:29:31.140
And then like, I'd like to, you know, I have this method called when I click it.

00:29:31.180 --> 00:29:34.220
So I wire up a event to, you know, a callback to it.

00:29:34.220 --> 00:29:38.040
So the Qt project has something like this, right?

00:29:38.040 --> 00:29:38.820
Yeah, exactly.

00:29:38.820 --> 00:29:43.980
So there is a, we have our own IDE, which is called Qt Creator.

00:29:43.980 --> 00:29:53.260
And inside this IDE, I mean, I was, I confess, I mean, even when I started to work there, I was really not into this IDE because I prefer to use Veeam, for example.

00:29:53.660 --> 00:29:58.000
But I started to discover the amount of things that you can do inside and it's quite remarkable.

00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:01.780
I mean, it's my, for example, way to go for debugging applications nowadays.

00:30:01.780 --> 00:30:10.160
And, but now that you mentioned the designer, you also have the ability of design interfaces, like, you know, the principle, what you see is what you get.

00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:16.220
So you start to drag and drop things, move things around, then you generate some kind of scheme, right?

00:30:16.220 --> 00:30:22.040
So this scheme will be translated into a UI file, which is something, of course, internally of Qt.

00:30:22.040 --> 00:30:25.400
And then with this UI file, you can do as you want.

00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:30.260
I mean, you can use it in your C++ project or you can use it for Python, for example.

00:30:30.260 --> 00:30:35.080
You can load it dynamically or even generating some Python code from this UI file.

00:30:35.080 --> 00:30:40.400
This portion of Talk Python To Me is brought to you by Rollbar.

00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:41.820
Got a question for you.

00:30:41.820 --> 00:30:44.520
Have you been outsourcing your bug discovery to your users?

00:30:44.740 --> 00:30:47.180
Have you been making them send you bug reports?

00:30:47.180 --> 00:30:48.880
You know, there's two problems with that.

00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:50.860
You can't discover all the bugs this way.

00:30:50.860 --> 00:30:53.400
And some users don't bother reporting bugs at all.

00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:55.300
They just leave, sometimes forever.

00:30:55.300 --> 00:30:59.120
The best software teams practice proactive error monitoring.

00:30:59.120 --> 00:31:05.500
They detect all the errors in their production apps and services in real time and debug important errors in minutes or hours,

00:31:05.500 --> 00:31:07.500
sometimes before users even notice.

00:31:07.500 --> 00:31:12.580
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00:31:54.520 --> 00:32:01.540
When you start talking about editors, that's a very sensitive thing for me as well, right?

00:32:01.540 --> 00:32:01.780
Yeah.

00:32:01.780 --> 00:32:07.320
It sounds to me like I can take the Qt Creator, which is what that IDE you're talking about is called, right?

00:32:07.320 --> 00:32:15.000
I can take that and I can define my UI files, but then I could still use my other editor to write the main code or something like this if I wanted.

00:32:15.180 --> 00:32:18.480
Well, I mean, yes, but again, that's another spoiler alert.

00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:23.780
No, but I mean, we are working on a proper integration with Qt Creator.

00:32:23.780 --> 00:32:28.460
At the moment, I mean, you can use it to code your applications and everything and everything is there.

00:32:28.460 --> 00:32:29.260
Syntax highlight.

00:32:29.260 --> 00:32:33.060
And now we have even some testing phase for auto-completion.

00:32:33.060 --> 00:32:38.020
But the problem is that we don't want to just provide a nice editor and that's it.

00:32:38.020 --> 00:32:43.380
I mean, we want to integrate more options and a more like a better integration with the Qt project.

00:32:43.620 --> 00:32:49.780
So just the thing that you mentioned about deployment or maybe transfer or creating base projects in Python.

00:32:49.780 --> 00:32:55.300
So everything of this is in our like to-do list of like what is the future of the project.

00:32:55.300 --> 00:33:00.620
So that's why we are so looking forward to releasing as soon as possible to start to work on these features.

00:33:00.620 --> 00:33:13.000
And now, I mean, lately in the last post that we have from Qt for Python, we had some intern that was working with us and he managed to, for example, even extend the same IDE, Qt Creator, with Python scripts.

00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:16.320
And this is something that is really new because in the past it was just C++.

00:33:16.320 --> 00:33:23.180
But now, since we have PySide 2, you are allowed or you will be allowed to modify the IDE even with Python.

00:33:23.180 --> 00:33:24.660
So we are Pythonizing everything.

00:33:24.660 --> 00:33:25.580
That is cool.

00:33:25.580 --> 00:33:30.700
So basically, I could write like extensions or plugins or whatever you call it for Qt Creator in Python.

00:33:30.700 --> 00:33:31.060
Exactly.

00:33:31.060 --> 00:33:31.940
Exactly.

00:33:31.940 --> 00:33:32.940
That's the idea.

00:33:32.940 --> 00:33:33.920
That's cool.

00:33:34.140 --> 00:33:42.660
So I guess that brings up another thought for me is, you know, so much of Qt is in C and the entire API is C++ based and whatnot.

00:33:42.660 --> 00:33:55.520
Do you see people writing part of their application in C++, but then maybe hosting the CPython runtime so that other people can extend their applications with Python?

00:33:55.520 --> 00:33:57.020
Or does that not really happen?

00:33:57.020 --> 00:33:57.700
Yeah.

00:33:57.700 --> 00:33:57.720
Yeah.

00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:04.280
To be honest, I mean, I was expecting less people doing this, but it's crazy by the amount of questions that we receive every day.

00:34:04.800 --> 00:34:20.400
Most of the people out there with some companies and even like some startups and stuff, they are trying to extend C++ application in the same idea that we are presenting for Qt Creator and they are trying to use PySide for it.

00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:28.100
So we have, for example, the same idea of writing plugins for your application is being done by any other project.

00:34:28.100 --> 00:34:33.660
One of our clients, for example, which is the graphical effects industry, it's called Autodesk.

00:34:33.660 --> 00:34:41.060
They also allow users to extend the application itself, writing the plugins with PySide.

00:34:41.060 --> 00:34:48.900
And also, like I have heard some stories of people also with some big C++ projects trying to allow users to write Python stuff.

00:34:48.900 --> 00:34:51.020
So, yeah, this is totally possible.

00:34:51.020 --> 00:34:51.360
Okay.

00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:52.460
How interesting.

00:34:52.460 --> 00:35:00.140
So I guess some other areas you might try to work on is we talked about embedded systems a little bit.

00:35:00.140 --> 00:35:01.080
What about mobile?

00:35:01.080 --> 00:35:01.800
Yeah.

00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:09.440
Well, mobile is something that every time that we go to some conference or talk, there is the question about what about mobile support?

00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:12.020
People pull up their phone and they're like, here.

00:35:12.020 --> 00:35:12.240
Exactly.

00:35:12.240 --> 00:35:13.640
I want it here.

00:35:13.640 --> 00:35:15.460
Billions of people are here.

00:35:15.460 --> 00:35:16.100
How do I do this?

00:35:16.100 --> 00:35:17.400
Are you working on this?

00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:17.620
Yeah.

00:35:17.620 --> 00:35:23.220
Well, this is something that at least would be like also another thing in our to-do list.

00:35:23.220 --> 00:35:26.240
But we are focusing on the previous topic before.

00:35:26.240 --> 00:35:28.260
But, yeah, it's something that we need to do.

00:35:28.260 --> 00:35:29.040
We need to achieve.

00:35:29.040 --> 00:35:34.740
I mean, at the moment, you have the option to go around with iOS or Android with Qt.

00:35:34.880 --> 00:35:39.040
There are some options, even in Qt Creator to deploy C++ applications to it.

00:35:39.040 --> 00:35:42.220
But, yeah, it's something that is really pending on us.

00:35:42.220 --> 00:35:44.940
But it's something that we totally would like to do.

00:35:44.940 --> 00:35:53.520
Because even though if you don't have the same feeling and you cannot compete with a native stuff like Android and Java and stuff, there's a lot of things to be done there.

00:35:53.520 --> 00:36:04.920
I mean, you can see, like, all the revolution that Kotlin has after it was introduced in Android that, of course, is kind of getting rid of all the Java ugly code and bringing some new stuff on it.

00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:08.200
So, yeah, we are totally going to be a part of that movement, too.

00:36:08.340 --> 00:36:11.700
I would love for you guys to be part of that if you're bringing Python along for the party.

00:36:11.700 --> 00:36:12.220
That'd be cool.

00:36:12.220 --> 00:36:26.640
It's really kind of surprising to me that Kotlin, which is a language created by JetBrains, maybe the last five years, it's not very old, actually almost displaced Java over in the Android space, which is quite interesting.

00:36:26.640 --> 00:36:30.720
Yeah, I mean, if you have some experience with Java, I mean, you will understand the pain.

00:36:30.720 --> 00:36:32.800
I mean, sadly, I have some experience, too.

00:36:33.700 --> 00:36:37.380
But, I mean, it was really frustrating even to writing small pieces of code.

00:36:37.380 --> 00:36:47.600
And at least for me, Kotlin, I always have the same idea that the person behind Kotlin, the people behind Kotlin, like, really decided to write something in a more Python-y way.

00:36:47.600 --> 00:36:48.940
I mean, we cannot deny it.

00:36:48.940 --> 00:36:51.120
I mean, it really has a lot of Python on it.

00:36:51.120 --> 00:36:54.320
And even the way of writing some stuff is like, hmm, this sounds like Python.

00:36:54.320 --> 00:36:59.860
So, yeah, I'm pretty sure that they tried and they had Python in mind when trying to write it.

00:36:59.860 --> 00:37:00.840
Yeah, interesting.

00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:02.560
I really haven't done very much with Kotlin.

00:37:02.700 --> 00:37:03.880
So, maybe I should check it out.

00:37:03.880 --> 00:37:04.800
Yeah, it's quite nice.

00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:05.420
It sounds interesting.

00:37:05.420 --> 00:37:06.480
Yeah, there was an article.

00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:08.040
I can't remember where it was.

00:37:08.040 --> 00:37:15.600
It was on some major unexpected, you know, magazine or news source that was talking about the future of programming languages.

00:37:15.600 --> 00:37:22.460
And it says, you know, one of the predictions was that Python is going to be the great-grandfather of many, many programming languages.

00:37:22.460 --> 00:37:24.420
I think that's probably true.

00:37:24.420 --> 00:37:25.600
And this sounds a little bit like that.

00:37:25.600 --> 00:37:26.520
You have Swift as well.

00:37:26.520 --> 00:37:27.600
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:37:27.600 --> 00:37:28.180
Right, exactly.

00:37:28.340 --> 00:37:36.440
Well, I haven't tried Swift, but I think it's, yeah, Python is a whole new starting point for the future generations and programming.

00:37:36.440 --> 00:37:39.660
Because it's bringing something that is simplicity, right?

00:37:39.660 --> 00:37:43.780
I mean, you know, I mean, the first time that I encountered Python, it was so easy to do things.

00:37:43.940 --> 00:37:51.540
I mean, you didn't even know, like, oh, there was a semicolon or what, or, you know, open brackets, closing brackets, or what is the stars?

00:37:51.540 --> 00:37:52.420
Yeah.

00:37:52.420 --> 00:37:53.160
You know, it was simple.

00:37:53.160 --> 00:37:55.600
That's the way that people started moving for, yeah.

00:37:55.740 --> 00:38:06.100
It's so interesting that when you come from one of these C-based languages or something like C++, C#, Java, whatever, even JavaScript, you feel like, oh, all these curly braces are required.

00:38:06.100 --> 00:38:09.180
All these parentheses around the if statement are required.

00:38:09.180 --> 00:38:15.020
And then you come work on Python, and, you know, it's a bit of a shock to the system, for sure.

00:38:15.020 --> 00:38:16.900
You're like, wait a minute, spacing matters?

00:38:16.900 --> 00:38:18.020
There's no curly braces?

00:38:18.020 --> 00:38:18.540
Where's it?

00:38:19.040 --> 00:38:24.140
But then, you know, after just a week, if you go back to the other language, you're like, what is all this stuff?

00:38:24.140 --> 00:38:24.740
Like, you're right.

00:38:24.740 --> 00:38:27.600
These parentheses here are not necessary.

00:38:27.600 --> 00:38:29.140
Why do I have to type all this stuff?

00:38:29.140 --> 00:38:29.920
Yes.

00:38:29.920 --> 00:38:35.360
And I remember back in the university, even teaching C, it was really a nightmare.

00:38:35.360 --> 00:38:40.020
Because, I mean, we all write code and even write normal, like, with handwriting and stuff differently.

00:38:40.020 --> 00:38:45.740
But having this space requirements, it's something that is so enlightened for writing code.

00:38:45.900 --> 00:38:49.100
And, I mean, it's really difficult to write ugly Python code.

00:38:49.100 --> 00:38:55.440
But I have seen, like, I mean, maybe you're aware of even, like, these obfuscated code tournaments that you have.

00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:57.060
Yes, that's so interesting.

00:38:57.060 --> 00:38:58.280
Yeah, tell people about that.

00:38:58.280 --> 00:39:02.060
Because I remember just being blown away from it.

00:39:02.060 --> 00:39:08.520
Well, the whole idea of obfuscated code is that to write code that can, when you see the code, it resembles something.

00:39:08.520 --> 00:39:12.320
And usually are really cryptic things and moving bytes around and stuff.

00:39:12.520 --> 00:39:19.520
And, for example, I remember the one more shocking to me was something about, like, a circle made with dots and a slash and stuff like that.

00:39:19.520 --> 00:39:24.280
And then when you compile the circle and you execute it, you get the value of P.

00:39:24.280 --> 00:39:25.480
And I was like, what?

00:39:25.480 --> 00:39:26.920
That is beautiful.

00:39:26.920 --> 00:39:28.360
It's really weird.

00:39:28.360 --> 00:39:34.160
I mean, with Python, I mean, luckily we will not have this kind of obfuscated tournaments or something.

00:39:34.160 --> 00:39:35.380
Because that would be a nice thing.

00:39:35.380 --> 00:39:38.340
Yeah, it definitely goes against the Xen of Python for sure.

00:39:38.340 --> 00:39:39.100
Totally.

00:39:39.100 --> 00:39:39.800
Really cool.

00:39:39.800 --> 00:39:55.180
So, speaking of styles and stuff coming together and worlds clashing, something that was surprising to me and I'd like to ask you about is when I look at the PySide 2 or just PySide, the APIs here, they all look C style.

00:39:55.180 --> 00:40:03.080
You know, lowercase first variable and then uppercase second as the first letter, then uppercase second, like, compacted word or composite word.

00:40:03.080 --> 00:40:03.720
Yeah.

00:40:03.720 --> 00:40:07.540
As opposed to snake, you know, in the snake case with the underscores and all lowercase.

00:40:07.760 --> 00:40:12.940
So, what's the story with this semi-non-Pythonic Python API?

00:40:12.940 --> 00:40:14.520
This is really a hot topic.

00:40:14.520 --> 00:40:22.960
Every time that I bring the talk about Qt for Python with C++ developers, Java developers, or even Python developers, everyone is hard to fight to each other.

00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:42.600
Because there is some things that we cannot break in the sense of, like, the reason, for example, for keeping the camel case for the Qt API is because every person that already knows Qt or has some project in Qt, it will be so easy for them to just rewrite code in a Python way using the same API.

00:40:42.600 --> 00:40:49.480
Because if we start to replace all the camel cases for underscore, which is the Python way of doing it, we will break everything.

00:40:49.740 --> 00:40:56.500
And people will start to run examples, for example, from C++, and will be unable to decipher how to write these things in Python.

00:40:56.500 --> 00:40:58.580
So, we said, okay, we need to settle somewhere.

00:40:58.580 --> 00:41:02.780
So, everything, every time that we use the Qt API, we'll use camel case.

00:41:02.780 --> 00:41:09.200
But everything else will be following all the peps that we want and the Python styling.

00:41:09.200 --> 00:41:11.700
So, that's why the examples look a little bit mixed.

00:41:11.700 --> 00:41:16.620
But, yeah, I mean, I think it is the best balance for the two worlds.

00:41:16.620 --> 00:41:18.520
And we are not the ones, the only ones.

00:41:18.580 --> 00:41:21.040
I think that there is asyncio or I don't know.

00:41:21.040 --> 00:41:23.880
There is another module in Python that uses camel case for the API.

00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:24.840
I'm not sure about it.

00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:26.880
But, I mean, I think that is a nice solution.

00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:28.780
Yeah, I have seen it before.

00:41:28.780 --> 00:41:30.240
I can't remember where it was either.

00:41:30.240 --> 00:41:32.940
But I'm like, wait, why is this library, you know, got this style?

00:41:32.940 --> 00:41:34.660
And I think it was in the standard library.

00:41:34.660 --> 00:41:36.360
That's funny.

00:41:36.360 --> 00:41:37.460
Ian, that makes sense to me.

00:41:37.460 --> 00:41:38.660
It's a bit of a trade-off, right?

00:41:38.660 --> 00:41:42.240
Like, you've already got this code that exists.

00:41:42.240 --> 00:41:47.860
And if you're going to generate it, there's this sort of easiest to generate exactly the same names.

00:41:47.860 --> 00:41:51.220
If you don't have to necessarily do the documentation as differently.

00:41:51.220 --> 00:41:51.800
Yeah.

00:41:51.800 --> 00:41:58.560
And even for us, for translating examples, for example, we have like, we graph any function written in C++.

00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:00.200
Then we copy it to the Python.

00:42:00.200 --> 00:42:01.220
We remove the brackets.

00:42:01.220 --> 00:42:02.340
We check the consistency.

00:42:02.340 --> 00:42:04.040
We remove all the semicolons.

00:42:04.040 --> 00:42:04.680
And that's it.

00:42:04.680 --> 00:42:05.520
I mean, there you have it.

00:42:05.520 --> 00:42:07.120
Look at all the complicated stuff.

00:42:07.120 --> 00:42:07.920
You take it away.

00:42:07.920 --> 00:42:12.380
All the unnecessary symbolic stuff that's hanging around.

00:42:12.380 --> 00:42:12.840
And look.

00:42:12.840 --> 00:42:14.300
It's the Python version.

00:42:14.300 --> 00:42:15.440
Interesting.

00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:16.140
Yeah.

00:42:16.140 --> 00:42:20.740
I've seen other frameworks like where they have something.

00:42:20.740 --> 00:42:22.700
Ultimately, it's a C API underneath.

00:42:22.700 --> 00:42:24.220
And it supports different languages.

00:42:24.220 --> 00:42:28.420
And they've taught basically the equivalent of their Shibokin to say,

00:42:28.540 --> 00:42:30.400
if I'm generating Python, it looks like this.

00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:34.080
If I'm generating JavaScript, JavaScript has this coding convention.

00:42:34.080 --> 00:42:36.780
But I can see the argument also for just saying,

00:42:36.780 --> 00:42:40.400
most of the people who are coming to this world are coming from the C++ world.

00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:41.660
And their code looks like this.

00:42:41.660 --> 00:42:43.680
Let's not shock them too much.

00:42:43.680 --> 00:42:44.340
Yeah, exactly.

00:42:44.340 --> 00:42:44.980
Totally.

00:42:44.980 --> 00:42:45.220
Yeah.

00:42:45.220 --> 00:42:46.720
But you have this debate often, huh?

00:42:46.720 --> 00:42:47.060
Yeah.

00:42:47.060 --> 00:42:47.320
I know.

00:42:47.320 --> 00:42:51.900
It's something that is, even when we are writing the code base of the projects,

00:42:51.900 --> 00:42:56.560
we have people that are really into Python, people that really comes from C++.

00:42:56.820 --> 00:43:02.100
So when we are doing all the code reviews, we start to clash, you know, between like,

00:43:02.100 --> 00:43:03.200
ah, you need to live in a space.

00:43:03.200 --> 00:43:04.840
No, it's not CPython standard.

00:43:04.840 --> 00:43:06.460
No, that's C++ standard.

00:43:06.460 --> 00:43:09.060
So we need to even agree with you among us.

00:43:09.060 --> 00:43:09.440
So yeah.

00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:10.260
Yeah.

00:43:10.260 --> 00:43:10.800
Interesting.

00:43:11.400 --> 00:43:17.920
So one thing that I saw showing up in the documentation and the API and stuff was this

00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:19.840
thing called signals and slots.

00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:20.420
Yeah.

00:43:20.420 --> 00:43:22.020
What's this and how does this look in Python?

00:43:22.020 --> 00:43:22.740
So yeah.

00:43:22.740 --> 00:43:25.760
I mean, signals and slots are the base of queued.

00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:32.540
So the idea behind this is that we treat every single element of the interface and also underneath

00:43:32.540 --> 00:43:34.740
as an object, as a queue object.

00:43:34.980 --> 00:43:38.300
So these objects can interact between them.

00:43:38.300 --> 00:43:41.000
And the idea of signals and slots is like that.

00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:44.760
I mean, an object will have something that will trigger something else.

00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:46.620
So let's put it like simple.

00:43:46.620 --> 00:43:50.200
If you have a button, then a button is also a queue object.

00:43:50.200 --> 00:43:54.380
And this button will have a special signal that it will call, for example, clicked.

00:43:54.380 --> 00:43:56.380
Of course, because you can click the button.

00:43:56.720 --> 00:43:59.700
And then this click signal will trigger something else.

00:43:59.700 --> 00:44:05.460
So then you can have another function or method, or what you want to call it, that will be the

00:44:05.460 --> 00:44:06.060
slot of it.

00:44:06.060 --> 00:44:08.780
So every time that you click the button, you will do something.

00:44:08.780 --> 00:44:10.560
So it's a really basic principle.

00:44:10.560 --> 00:44:14.080
But I mean, this is the base of the whole Qt framework.

00:44:14.080 --> 00:44:18.380
So that will be roughly the same in Qt for Python.

00:44:18.380 --> 00:44:20.040
And we follow the same idea.

00:44:20.040 --> 00:44:22.440
We are not adding new signals or removing old ones.

00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:24.000
I mean, it's just keeping the same API.

00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:26.340
So that's really nice of it.

00:44:26.520 --> 00:44:27.020
Yeah, okay.

00:44:27.020 --> 00:44:33.800
So this is a way to basically wire up functions to be called for user interface events.

00:44:33.800 --> 00:44:35.020
Mouse over, click, whatever.

00:44:35.020 --> 00:44:35.520
Exactly.

00:44:35.520 --> 00:44:38.800
The hover, trigger, everything, like check, everything.

00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:46.880
So what's the performance look like if I've got a non-trivial C++ application written in Qt,

00:44:46.880 --> 00:44:54.560
and then I were to rewrite that in Qt for Python, what would my experience be like?

00:44:54.560 --> 00:45:00.160
For general applications, like even big ones, like for example, a browser.

00:45:00.160 --> 00:45:06.100
Personally, I haven't performed any like a real test, you know, which are milliseconds, etc.

00:45:06.200 --> 00:45:12.740
But I kind of noticed any like lag or delays on having something written in Python.

00:45:12.740 --> 00:45:20.200
And the only problem with time that will come will see something only if you are writing Python code that is slow.

00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:27.280
So if you start to iterate a list of lists in the wrong way and then are accessing all the time to all the data,

00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:32.020
maybe you will of course encounter some bad speedup for your application.

00:45:32.260 --> 00:45:40.820
But roughly, for example, there is a couple of browsers are reading as an example inside a Qt code that we had the Python version,

00:45:40.820 --> 00:45:45.120
and we couldn't notice like any difference of like executing the C++ and the Python versions,

00:45:45.120 --> 00:45:46.440
because they're quite simple.

00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:53.440
And there's again fast, because after all, I mean, we are just calling the C++ methods and functions underneath.

00:45:53.680 --> 00:45:55.760
That's a really interesting bit there.

00:45:55.760 --> 00:46:01.280
I feel like when people talk about performance of Python, a lot of times they say, oh, it's way slower than C or whatever.

00:46:01.280 --> 00:46:06.780
But much of the time, if you're doing say like data science stuff, or in the case of Qt,

00:46:06.780 --> 00:46:13.140
you're doing a little bit of Python orchestration around objects that are executing in C directly, right?

00:46:13.140 --> 00:46:18.980
So like in your web browser example, you might say like if somebody types in the address bar and hits enter,

00:46:18.980 --> 00:46:23.620
you want it to drive the web browser widget to go to that address.

00:46:23.620 --> 00:46:32.140
But really the only Python code that executes is got a string, tell the C library to go drive the thing to this URL, right?

00:46:32.140 --> 00:46:38.080
And so it's only if you're actually doing like lots of computation directly in Python, right?

00:46:38.220 --> 00:46:44.600
Yeah, I think most of these statements come from people that really are not really experienced on Python in the sense of like,

00:46:44.600 --> 00:46:48.740
they try to rewrite Java or C++ code in the same way.

00:46:48.740 --> 00:46:54.780
So you are aware of it that, of course, that if you write, for example, iterations on Python list or list comprehension,

00:46:54.780 --> 00:46:59.720
or maybe you have some ways of optimizing your code, you can even reach like the same levels.

00:46:59.720 --> 00:47:04.880
And I think that this will just depend on the amount of knowledge that the user can have, right?

00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:11.240
Because I mean, of course, if you translate any C++ application with a lot of loops and everything into Python, it would be way slower.

00:47:11.240 --> 00:47:15.240
So we need to rethink the algorithms to use Python in a better way.

00:47:15.240 --> 00:47:15.780
Yeah, for sure.

00:47:15.780 --> 00:47:17.360
And I brought up the import anti-gravity.

00:47:17.360 --> 00:47:23.500
You know, so much of what I think would happen if you're coming from one of these other libraries

00:47:23.500 --> 00:47:28.540
that doesn't have as many foundational things to use is you just copy the code over

00:47:28.540 --> 00:47:30.840
and then you try to execute it on CPython.

00:47:31.160 --> 00:47:38.020
But instead of maybe some great big loop, you pip install a thing that has some optimized part of it and you just call that, right?

00:47:38.020 --> 00:47:40.240
And that completely changes the story.

00:47:40.240 --> 00:47:41.760
So it's pretty interesting.

00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:47.580
So you think it's a pretty reasonable thing to do to write acute application, GUI applications in Python.

00:47:47.580 --> 00:47:49.520
It's not going to be a complete night and day thing?

00:47:49.520 --> 00:47:50.240
Yeah, totally.

00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:52.040
I mean, at least that's my personal opinion.

00:47:52.040 --> 00:48:00.920
I'm looking forward for having some real cases of people that are doing like really weird things about like populating tables of like 1 million by time, 1 million.

00:48:00.920 --> 00:48:02.980
And they have some speed issues.

00:48:02.980 --> 00:48:05.040
But I think that we are open to it.

00:48:05.040 --> 00:48:08.480
We had a case recently of there was a bug.

00:48:08.480 --> 00:48:11.800
There was some person that was populating a table.

00:48:11.800 --> 00:48:16.420
I think like 100 times on the table was like a huge.

00:48:16.420 --> 00:48:20.340
And of course, I mean, the user brought the bug on it.

00:48:20.340 --> 00:48:22.980
But I mean, we didn't understand what was the real use of this.

00:48:22.980 --> 00:48:25.560
But we were quite open about it.

00:48:25.560 --> 00:48:34.720
And then we decided to start to optimize our code and some C++, even optimizations, for example, going to vectors instead of list and things like this.

00:48:34.720 --> 00:48:36.340
So we were quite open about it.

00:48:36.340 --> 00:48:41.460
And every time that someone brings some speed issues to the IRC channel, we try to figure it out and try to solve it.

00:48:41.460 --> 00:48:42.540
Seems like you're doing a good job.

00:48:42.540 --> 00:48:43.320
It sounds great.

00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:44.080
All right.

00:48:44.080 --> 00:48:45.400
Are you ready for a tough question?

00:48:45.400 --> 00:48:46.140
Yes, I am.

00:48:46.140 --> 00:48:46.800
All right.

00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:54.700
So you said that this is available for open source projects for free or there's a license that I can buy.

00:48:54.700 --> 00:48:58.720
So for open source license, for open source, it's under what?

00:48:58.720 --> 00:48:59.460
GPL?

00:48:59.460 --> 00:49:00.340
LGPL?

00:49:00.340 --> 00:49:01.220
LGPL.

00:49:01.220 --> 00:49:01.780
LGPL.

00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:07.060
So if I write, like, let's suppose I write a database management application, right?

00:49:07.060 --> 00:49:11.060
I want to have a new designer and graphical designer for, like, working with databases.

00:49:11.060 --> 00:49:13.620
I'm going to write that in Qt for Python.

00:49:13.620 --> 00:49:16.880
That would mean my application would have to be open source.

00:49:16.880 --> 00:49:19.380
Well, I mean, that's just following the LDPL.

00:49:19.380 --> 00:49:20.540
Right.

00:49:20.540 --> 00:49:20.960
So, yeah.

00:49:20.960 --> 00:49:23.000
But if I don't want that, what do I do?

00:49:23.000 --> 00:49:24.960
If I want to sell that product, for example.

00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:25.760
That's the thing.

00:49:25.760 --> 00:49:31.700
I mean, since, of course, Qt is based on this open source idea, but we're also a company.

00:49:31.700 --> 00:49:35.980
We need to have some customers with some, you know, support and everything.

00:49:35.980 --> 00:49:38.860
We sell license for commercial use.

00:49:38.860 --> 00:49:44.860
So this will allow you to build whatever you want in Qt and sell it as your own product and everything.

00:49:45.100 --> 00:49:59.560
So that's one of the things that the Qt for Python project will bring to new customers that with the same license, you will be allowed to build any application using the PySide 2 module and sell it if your business is about it.

00:49:59.560 --> 00:50:01.460
So that's one of the nice things.

00:50:01.460 --> 00:50:06.500
And, of course, and always, we will keep all the code open source and LGPL related.

00:50:06.500 --> 00:50:07.060
So, yeah.

00:50:07.140 --> 00:50:07.360
Right.

00:50:07.360 --> 00:50:07.680
Okay.

00:50:07.680 --> 00:50:09.260
What does that cost me?

00:50:09.260 --> 00:50:17.060
I really don't know the prices at the moment, but I can point you to any salesperson.

00:50:17.060 --> 00:50:17.520
Yeah, yeah.

00:50:17.520 --> 00:50:23.740
No, but it really depends, I think, the size of the amount of licenses that you want to buy.

00:50:23.740 --> 00:50:25.360
Do you know how it's apportioned?

00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:27.920
Like, is it the number of customers I have?

00:50:27.920 --> 00:50:30.220
Is it the number of developers working on the project?

00:50:30.220 --> 00:50:31.480
I really don't know about it.

00:50:31.480 --> 00:50:36.160
I think that it's based on the developers, but I don't know that well either.

00:50:36.160 --> 00:50:36.500
Okay.

00:50:37.040 --> 00:50:41.280
But there is a, if I want to build commercial applications, there's a path for that.

00:50:41.280 --> 00:50:43.780
And if I want to build open source applications, there's a path for that.

00:50:43.780 --> 00:50:44.440
Exactly.

00:50:44.440 --> 00:50:45.140
Okay.

00:50:45.140 --> 00:50:46.500
Well, that sounds good.

00:50:46.500 --> 00:50:54.580
I guess, you know, you've touched on some of these things, but maybe just give you a chance to summarize it or bring anything we haven't mentioned yet.

00:50:54.580 --> 00:50:56.300
Where's this going?

00:50:56.300 --> 00:51:03.420
So, at the end of the year-ish, we're going to have Qt 5.12 with Qt for Python out and things like that.

00:51:03.420 --> 00:51:04.140
Then what?

00:51:04.140 --> 00:51:04.960
So, yeah.

00:51:05.060 --> 00:51:12.100
I mean, the future that the only restriction that we currently have, the only constraint is that we would like to have more people on board about it.

00:51:12.760 --> 00:51:14.600
Because we have a lot of ideas.

00:51:14.600 --> 00:51:17.960
And, but we don't have enough time as usual.

00:51:18.280 --> 00:51:18.880
So, yeah.

00:51:18.880 --> 00:51:18.880
So, yeah.

00:51:18.880 --> 00:51:24.080
I mean, our number one, I think, task is the Qt creator integration.

00:51:24.080 --> 00:51:33.720
So, to have a proper IDE to be compatible with Qt and then to be able to deploy the applications and try to have everything on the same ecosystem, right?

00:51:33.720 --> 00:51:38.260
I mean, the designer and then build your UI files into Python files and everything.

00:51:38.460 --> 00:51:40.320
So, I think that's one of the high priority.

00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:45.760
And this comes, of course, at the hands of all the deployment aspects that we want to cover.

00:51:45.760 --> 00:51:50.780
After that, it really will be depending on the users that we have.

00:51:50.780 --> 00:51:52.660
I mean, we are really, really open about it.

00:51:52.660 --> 00:51:58.460
And every time on IRC, sometimes we ask, what do you think that would be better for the next step?

00:51:58.700 --> 00:52:04.700
Personally, I mean, I would like to go into, after the Qt creator and deployment, maybe for embedded system.

00:52:04.700 --> 00:52:12.020
Because I have been approached by many people that says, I have this Raspberry Pi, I have an application, and I really want to start to use Qt for Python.

00:52:12.020 --> 00:52:13.540
So, please, what do I need to do?

00:52:13.540 --> 00:52:15.400
So, there are a lot of people doing this.

00:52:15.400 --> 00:52:23.280
And after that, after embedded system, which is one of the strong features of Qt, I think that we should, we can totally go to mobile.

00:52:23.500 --> 00:52:30.180
Because I think it is something that people is asking for, and currently with the development of them, it's a smartphone that we get every day and everything.

00:52:30.180 --> 00:52:38.000
It's something that would be really nice to combine having your Qt desktop application, but also run on mobile, tablets, and phones, and everything.

00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:48.480
I think if you guys can nail the deployment thing, I push a button and I have a macOS.app that I can give to people, that would be a game changer.

00:52:49.020 --> 00:52:59.980
Similarly, if you say, I can push a button, and here's the thing I put in the iOS or Android app store, Google Play, also, you know, massively a game changer.

00:52:59.980 --> 00:53:05.320
So, I'm excited to hear this, and I wish you good luck on the journey, because we all need it.

00:53:05.320 --> 00:53:06.060
Yeah, thank you.

00:53:06.060 --> 00:53:07.300
Yeah, pretty cool.

00:53:07.300 --> 00:53:11.320
All right, well, I think we've pretty much covered the topic.

00:53:11.320 --> 00:53:14.620
I know there's a lot more we could go into, but it's a good introduction for people.

00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:18.280
So, Q for Python, I'm super excited that you all are working on it.

00:53:18.280 --> 00:53:21.300
Let me ask you the two questions before you get out of here.

00:53:21.300 --> 00:53:24.360
If you're going to write some Python code, what editor do you use?

00:53:24.360 --> 00:53:25.520
Vim, forever.

00:53:25.520 --> 00:53:26.820
I cannot get out of it.

00:53:26.820 --> 00:53:28.200
No, no.

00:53:28.200 --> 00:53:29.460
Yeah, have you tried?

00:53:29.460 --> 00:53:38.960
I mean, I usually recommend for people starting it to use, there is nice, like Eric, for example, this small IDE or Visual Code or PyCharm, for example.

00:53:38.960 --> 00:53:44.940
But if you, I mean, I am really used to Vim, so I cannot get out of it in all sense.

00:53:44.940 --> 00:53:46.040
So, please, if you know, help me.

00:53:46.040 --> 00:53:48.940
No, but it's my ecosystem.

00:53:48.940 --> 00:53:52.760
So, I think that's the only thing that I require to do everything.

00:53:52.760 --> 00:53:53.480
Yeah, cool.

00:53:53.480 --> 00:54:01.700
And then notable PyPI packages, maybe not necessarily the most popular, but one that you've come across, like, oh, people should know about this.

00:54:02.060 --> 00:54:03.760
Yeah, well, of course, PySci2.

00:54:03.760 --> 00:54:04.720
Of course.

00:54:04.720 --> 00:54:12.440
No, but during my studies, I think that all this, the SciPy suite is something that is, it was a must.

00:54:12.440 --> 00:54:16.740
I mean, I couldn't do anything without NumPy, MatplotLeave, all these things.

00:54:16.740 --> 00:54:22.040
So, I am really trying to follow in all the developments of data science, for example, or the Jupyter notebooks.

00:54:22.040 --> 00:54:25.300
I think that those are amazing for the Python community.

00:54:25.300 --> 00:54:34.560
And lately, I think that the other day, listening to one of your podcasts, I discovered black for modifying the code, and it was really a game changer.

00:54:34.560 --> 00:54:35.780
Yeah, black is cool.

00:54:35.780 --> 00:54:37.960
Because it had a couple of files, and it was really, really nice.

00:54:37.960 --> 00:54:38.300
So, yeah.

00:54:38.300 --> 00:54:38.560
Cool.

00:54:38.560 --> 00:54:39.780
Those are definitely good ones.

00:54:39.780 --> 00:54:41.140
All right, Christian.

00:54:41.140 --> 00:54:43.280
People are excited about Qt for Python.

00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:44.500
Final call to action.

00:54:44.500 --> 00:54:44.940
What do they do?

00:54:44.940 --> 00:54:45.720
So, okay.

00:54:45.720 --> 00:54:52.500
So, at the moment, you can go to your terminal and just install PySci2 and start to try all the examples that we have inside.

00:54:52.500 --> 00:54:54.260
We are quite active on IRC.

00:54:54.420 --> 00:54:58.720
I personally promise you that I will be there at least in working hours or something.

00:54:58.720 --> 00:55:01.080
But I try to answer all the questions.

00:55:01.080 --> 00:55:05.160
We have a lot of users since we started the first wheel set.

00:55:05.160 --> 00:55:08.900
So, if you have any questions, just go on IRC, and we will be there.

00:55:08.900 --> 00:55:16.540
And also, it's quite important now that by the end of the year, we have the Qt World Summit, which is the yearly event of Qt.

00:55:16.540 --> 00:55:19.560
A lot of people go there, all the clients, all the new users, everything.

00:55:20.160 --> 00:55:21.260
And we have two dates.

00:55:21.260 --> 00:55:24.500
One is in Boston, the 29th and 30th of October.

00:55:25.040 --> 00:55:26.980
Also, we will have the same event in Berlin.

00:55:26.980 --> 00:55:32.280
So, I will be giving a talk on Qt for Python, which is called Mastering Qt for Python in 20 minutes.

00:55:32.780 --> 00:55:38.140
So, if you really want to go to these events, maybe later you can share the link or something.

00:55:38.140 --> 00:55:42.780
I think it is a really nice event to know about Qt for Python and Qt in general.

00:55:42.780 --> 00:55:43.220
All right.

00:55:43.220 --> 00:55:44.300
Yeah, those are great.

00:55:44.300 --> 00:55:46.580
Are you going to be at PyCon 2019?

00:55:46.820 --> 00:55:47.100
No, no.

00:55:47.100 --> 00:55:49.560
No, I didn't have a chance to go there.

00:55:49.560 --> 00:55:57.300
But, yeah, I'm totally planning for next year because since the release was this year, we wanted to go there and try to talk once the product is out, right?

00:55:57.300 --> 00:56:04.440
So, I think we will give it a try next year to maybe go to a couple of Pycons in the U.S. if we can.

00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:06.860
And EuroPython maybe here in Europe.

00:56:06.860 --> 00:56:07.200
Excellent.

00:56:07.340 --> 00:56:08.400
Well, I hope to see you there.

00:56:08.400 --> 00:56:13.580
And definitely your conference's Qt World Summit sounds interesting as well.

00:56:13.580 --> 00:56:14.760
So, thank you so much.

00:56:14.760 --> 00:56:17.320
I really appreciate you being on the show and keep up the good work.

00:56:17.320 --> 00:56:19.300
I can't wait for that build deploy button.

00:56:19.300 --> 00:56:20.160
Thanks to you.

00:56:20.160 --> 00:56:21.460
It was really a pleasure to be here.

00:56:21.460 --> 00:56:23.260
So, yeah, we are looking forward to it.

00:56:23.260 --> 00:56:24.520
Stay tuned.

00:56:24.520 --> 00:56:25.340
Great.

00:56:25.340 --> 00:56:25.880
Talk to you later.

00:56:25.880 --> 00:56:26.560
Thank you very much.

00:56:26.560 --> 00:56:26.780
Bye.

00:56:26.780 --> 00:56:30.720
This has been another episode of Talk Python To Me.

00:56:30.720 --> 00:56:34.720
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00:56:34.720 --> 00:56:37.240
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00:57:35.780 --> 00:57:37.120
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00:57:37.120 --> 00:57:38.480
Thanks so much for listening.

00:57:38.480 --> 00:57:39.560
I really appreciate it.

00:57:39.560 --> 00:57:41.500
Now get out there and write some Python code.

00:57:41.500 --> 00:57:43.880
I really appreciate it.

00:57:43.880 --> 00:57:44.780
I really appreciate it.

00:57:44.780 --> 00:57:46.460
I really appreciate it.

00:57:46.460 --> 00:57:46.680
Thank you.

00:57:46.680 --> 00:57:47.040
Thank you.

00:57:47.040 --> 00:57:47.320
Thank you.

00:57:47.320 --> 00:57:48.320
Thank you.

00:57:48.320 --> 00:57:49.320
Thank you.

00:57:49.320 --> 00:57:50.320
Thank you.

00:57:50.320 --> 00:57:51.320
Thank you.

00:57:51.320 --> 00:57:52.320
Thank you.

00:57:52.320 --> 00:57:53.320
Thank you.

00:57:53.320 --> 00:57:54.320
Thank you.

00:57:54.320 --> 00:57:55.320
Thank you.

00:57:55.320 --> 00:57:56.320
Thank you.

00:57:56.320 --> 00:57:57.320
Thank you.

00:57:57.320 --> 00:57:58.320
Thank you.

00:57:58.320 --> 00:57:59.320
Thank you.

00:57:59.320 --> 00:57:59.820
you

00:57:59.820 --> 00:58:00.320
you

00:58:00.320 --> 00:58:02.320
Thank you.

00:58:02.320 --> 00:58:32.300
Thank you.