8
$\begingroup$

It seems that Jensen's proof of the consistency of CH + SH used class forcing, but the revelant properties are not clearly verified. I haven't learnt about class forcing, so I wonder whether it is justified. It is on Devlin's The Souslin Problem, p97-99.

First, the forcing notion $\mathbb{C} = \{(\alpha, A) : \alpha < \omega_1, A \subseteq \omega_1 \text{ is a club}\}$. We assume the ground model $V \models 2^\omega = \omega_1$ and $2^{\omega_1} = \omega_2$, so $\mathbb{C}$ is $\omega_1$-closed, has $\omega_2$-cc and size $\omega_2$. For any generic filter $G$, $C = \bigcup\{\alpha \cap A : (\alpha, A) \in G\} = \bigcap\{A: (0,A) \in G\}$ is the generic subset of $\omega_1$.

Also, for any transitive set $U$ and a poset $P \in U$, a filter $G \subseteq P$ is called $(U,P)$-generic if $G$ meets all dense subset of $P$ that is first-order definable in the model $\langle U, \in, x \rangle_{x \in U}$.

Take any countable $N \prec H_{\omega_2}$ and let $\pi: N \to \bar{N}$ be the transitive collapse. So we have $\pi(\omega_1) = \alpha_N = N \cap \omega_1$ and $\pi(\alpha, A) = (\alpha, A \cap \alpha_N)$ for all $(\alpha, A) \in N\cap \mathbb{C}$. Since $|\mathbb{C}| = \omega_2$ it is a proper class of $H_{\omega_2}$, and $\pi(\mathbb{C}) = \pi[\mathbb{C} \cap N]$ is also a proper class of $\bar{N}$.

Now we take a countable transitive set $U$ with $\bar{N}, \pi(\mathbb{C}) \in U$. What happens is this:

Take any $(U,\pi(\mathbb{C}))$-generic filter $G$, there is a $p = (\alpha_N, C) \in \mathbb{C}$ that is a lower bound of $\pi^{-1}[G]$ and $C \cap \alpha_N$ is a $(U,\pi(\mathbb{C}))$-generic subset of $\alpha_N$. And this claim is made:

$\bar{N}[C \cap \alpha_N] \models \pi(\phi) \iff \exists q \in G (q \Vdash_{\pi(\mathbb{C})} \pi(\phi)) \implies \exists q \in G(\pi^{-1}(q)) \Vdash _\mathbb{C} \phi$, where $\phi$ is a sentence with parameters only in $\{\check{x} : x \in N\} \cup \{\dot{C}\}$.

Since $\pi(\mathbb{C})$ is a proper class of $\bar{N}$ I wonder whether this claim is true.

$\endgroup$

1 Answer 1

4
$\begingroup$

There is no real class forcing issue here. The phrase “$\pi(\mathbb{C})$ is a proper class of $\overline{N}$” only means that $\pi(\mathbb{C})$ is not an element of $\overline{N}$ even though $\pi(C)$ is of course a genuine set in $V$.

Devlin’s setup is:

In $V$ you have a forcing notion $\mathbb{C} = \{(\alpha, A): \alpha < \omega_1 \land A \subseteq \omega_1 \text{ is club}\}$, of size $\omega_2$. So $\mathbb{C}$ is an ordinary set forcing.

You take a countable $N \prec H(\omega_2)$, collapse it to a transitive $\overline{N}$ via $\pi$. Then $\pi(C) = \pi[C \cap N]$ is a subset of $\overline{N}$ that is not itself in $\overline{N}$ so it is convenient to call it a “proper class of $\overline{N}$”.

To actually do forcing, Devlin chooses a countable transitive $U$ with $\overline{N}, \pi(\mathbb{C}) \in U$. In $U$, the same $\pi(\mathbb{C})$ is an element, so you are just doing standard set forcing with $P = π(\mathbb{C}) \in U$.

A filter $G \subset P$ is $(U,P)$-generic if it meets all dense subsets of $P$ that are first-order definable in $\langle U, \in, x \rangle_{x \in U}$. Since $U$ is countable, one can build such a $G$ in the usual way, and the forcing relation “$q$ forces $\psi$” is defined inside $U$ by the standard recursion. Thus the usual forcing theorem holds over $U$:

$$U[G] \models \psi \iff \exists q \in G (q \Vdash \psi)$$

for sentences $\psi$ with parameters from $U$.

In your situation, $\phi$ is a sentence with parameters in $N$ and the canonical name for the generic club. After collapsing, $\pi(\phi)$ is a sentence with parameters in $\overline{N}$ and $C \cap \alpha_N$. The model $\overline{N}[C \cap \alpha_N]$ sits inside $U[G]$, so

$$\overline{N}[C \cap \alpha_N] \Vdash \pi(\phi)$$

is a statement about $U[G]$, and by the forcing theorem over $U$ this is equivalent to

$$\exists q \in G (q \Vdash_{\pi(\mathbb{C})} \pi(\phi))$$

Finally, since $N \prec H(\omega_2)$ and $\pi$ is the collapse, you can pull $q$ back to $p = \pi^{-1}(q) \in \mathbb{C}$ and get

$$p \Vdash_{\mathbb{C}} \phi$$

So the argument Devlin sketches is just ordinary set forcing over a countable transitive $U$; the fact that $\pi(\mathbb{C})$ is a “proper class of $\overline{N}$” does not cause any problem and does not require genuine class forcing.

$\endgroup$
12
  • 3
    $\begingroup$ I converted your answer to LaTeX, I advise you use it in the future too. However, I can’t check the actual logic. $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 17 at 9:13
  • $\begingroup$ I haven't seen this definition of (U,P)-generic before, but here U is only demanded to be transitive. Would this suffice to garantee the forcing theorem? And is this U[G] defined by intepreting all its definable names? $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 17 at 10:29
  • $\begingroup$ Yes. Here it is enough that $U$ is a transitive set with $P\in U$. The forcing relation for $P$ is defined in the ambient $V$, the forcing theorem is proved there, and then applied to $\langle U,\in\rangle$ and any $(U,P)$-generic $G$. The extension $U[G]$ is defined in the usual way, by interpreting all $P$-names in $U$, not just definable ones. May I ask what your main goal is here, what you are trying to solve? $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 17 at 11:36
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ Sorry but I still have a little question. The last part I guess is like this: $$U[G] \models (\bar{N}[C \cap \alpha_N] \models \pi \phi) \implies \exists q \in G (q \Vdash_{\pi \mathbb{C}} (\pi \phi)^{\bar{N}[\dot{C} \cap \alpha_N]})^U \implies (\pi^{-1}q \Vdash_\mathbb{C} (\phi)^{N[\dot{C}]})^V \implies (\pi^{-1}q \Vdash_\mathbb{C} (\phi)^{H_{\omega_2}[\dot{G}]})^V.$$ But how can we get the second implication in this formula? Does the $\pi^{-1}: \bar{N} \prec H_{\omega_2}$ suffice? $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 18 at 8:38
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ Yes, in a sense you can relativize this forcing statement to $\bar N$. Since $\bar N$ is transitive and $\pi(\mathbb C)\in\bar N\subseteq U$, one can define an internal relation $\Vdash^{\bar N}{\pi(\mathbb C)}$ by the same recursion, and for conditions and names in $\bar N$ we have $q\Vdash^{\bar N}{\pi(\mathbb C)}\psi \iff q\Vdash^{U}{\pi(\mathbb C)}\psi$ by absoluteness of the defining formula. But in the argument I preferred to phrase the transfer via the elementary embedding $i\circ\pi^{-1}:\bar N\to H{\omega_2}$ and the fact that $\Vdash$ is first-order definable there. $\endgroup$ Commented Nov 20 at 14:34

You must log in to answer this question.

Start asking to get answers

Find the answer to your question by asking.

Ask question

Explore related questions

See similar questions with these tags.