Mailman 3 August 2004 - Pythonmac-SIG

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python for OSX programming beginner?
by Russell E Owen March 20, 2005

March 20, 2005

>Been lurking here for a while and quietly observing. > >I am looking for a programming language and preferably and IDE for a >young nephew wanting to dip his toes in the programming pool... >Is Python worth further investigating and how good are the IDEs? >Is there something along the lines of REALbasic VisualBasic >integrated interface/code style IDE available? >What are the specialities limits of the language? >Why learn Python rather than battle on and master C or more >particularly Objective C ? >Rather difficult to answer, but how different is the learning curve? > >Many thanks for any help. Hmmm...I suggest the following: Smalltalk: Squeak and VisualWorks NC are both free (the latter only for noncommercial use). Smalltalk is a lovely, simple really powerful language that includes: - powerful IDE and class browser with integrated debugger; smalltalk has the best development environment I've ever seen for a language because it includes live debugging, live changing of classes (want to fix a method? go ahead; the change propagates; fix it and continue on the fly) - really simple yet powerful language; one of the most elegant languges I've seen, though the syntax is a bit different than C and Python programmers are used to - very rich class library, including one of the nicest collection classes (lists, sets, etc.) available Between these two, squeak is smaller and more fun and includes a nifty GUI called Morphic; however it all runs in one big window (very non-Mac like). VisualWorks is more Mac-like (at least on a Mac) and more mature, but is much larger. Both are fully cross-platform (write once, run everywhere). One limitation to smalltalk is that it's not much good for simple scripting, hence simple text processing scripts and such. Python really shines there, so... Python. This is a really nice language and he'll be able to go far with it. However, based on what you said above, some of its limitations make me nervous: - there is no really well integrated GUI, unlike the suggestions above. You can do GUI programming, but you have to choose a 3rd party package and they are fully powerful, but the two main ones (Tkinter and wxPython) are somewhat clumsy and poorly documented. - hence there is no really first rate IDE (not to put down the IDEs that are there, but in comparison to smalltalk or RealBasic...) Note: python is built into MacOS X 10.2, but it's an outdated version missing some of the things that make the language sane (such as readlines support and a GUI package). Install the missing items or a better package (if you've been reading you've seen various options for that including at least one recent binary installer). I suggest learning those two (since their few weaknesses are complimentary), but you could also consider: Buy RealBasic. The knowledge is well worth the money! It's not a wonderful language, but not so bad either and if he already knows it, well...that's a huge leg up. Java. Not sure what the IDE situation is for MacOS X, but the language is reasonable (much saner than C++). The problem is that the need to declare the type of all objects makes it a clumsy and messy language compared to Python and Smalltalk. I suggest NOT using C++. The language is too arcane and messy. The object model is insanely complicated and the pitfalls fill volumes. Learn to program first, then learn C++ later if you really have to. -- Russell

3 3

(no subject)
by Keith Nemitz Dec. 6, 2004

Dec. 6, 2004

>> >> >> huh? I mean does everyone use[-3:] instead and 0 is taboo? I'm used >> to the Icon programming language where "food"[-3:0] returns --> ood > > "food"[-3:] is equivalent to "food"[-3:None] (that is, literally, how > it works out internally) > > "food"[-3:0] is just backwards :) If anything, it should give you > "oof", but that's too confusing. > > -bob > Thank you. I knew there had to be a reason. If you think about lists as ring buffers, however, then "food"[-3:0]-->"ood" makes plenty of sense and can be very useful. My case that started this whole thread had to do with iterating from negative to positive, returning larger substrings on each iteration. It broke with the zero index. So I had to special case it. sigh, I wonder if adding this 'concept' to python (indexing lists as ring buffers) would break any existing code... Heck while I'm at it, changing the language, might as well add nested comments, and (my personal favorite) record names, implemented like this: record <tuple of enums> tuple of enums ::= (<enum> [,enum]*) enum ::= <string>[= <int>] ...such that the keyword 'record' turns the strings into module and/or class scoped indexes. Isn't it fun to dream? Keith Nemitz

11 28

solution for matplotlib compile problems
by Kenneth McDonald Oct. 14, 2004

Oct. 14, 2004

Just in case anyone else is interested... John Hunter, the fellow behind matplotlib, quickly provided a solution to my compile problems on OS X. Fetch this file: http://matplotlib.sf.net/setupext.py and use it to replace the file of the same name in the matplotlib root dir (dir containing 'setup.py'), then do the build. Worked great for me. I would imagine this is now (or soon will be) in the distribution. Thanks for the help, everyone, Ken

8 7

WebKit, SVG
by Dinu Gherman Oct. 4, 2004

Oct. 4, 2004

Hi, recently I played a bit with Konfabulator, some kind of a "widget framework" for OS X, which looks very nice at the beginning. But after a while it seemed to me that despite the very good idea, its implementation is kind of using the wrong technology. They try to make it very simple to define widgets by specifying them in XML and adding behaviour in Javascript code. This is done in some very strange way, though, like putting the Javascript code insinde XML comments, which is the recommended way of doing it! Well, I think SVG and Python would be the better combination, so I wonder if Apple's WebKit is any good in making use of Adobe's SVG renderer plug-in, somehow? Of course, then we'd still need some bridge to Python, but you need to start somewhere... Dinu PS: www.konfabulator.com -- Dinu C. Gherman ...................................................................... "The thing that impresses me the most about America is the way parents obey their children." (King Edward VIII)

7 9

Carbon.AE - AEInstallCoercionHandler ?
by has Aug. 31, 2004

Aug. 31, 2004

Hi, Really a question for Jack I suppose, but I'm wondering if there's a reason why Carbon.AE doesn't include functions for installing and removing coercion handlers? Ta, has p.s. Also curious about AEInstallSpecialHandler, which Carbon.AE does include - what, if anything, would you use it for? (Apple's docs are hopeless at explaining this stuff.) -- http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/

2 2

python with readline support
by John Hunter Aug. 30, 2004

Aug. 30, 2004

I just installed GNU readline 5.0 on my OSX 10.3 powerbook G4. I would like to have python with readline support. I am using the framework /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/bin/python2.3 which reports python2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003..) [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 1495] on darwin My question is: is there an easy way to get readline support in python. Normally you have to rebuild it. Has anyone done this (how would I rebuild python if using the framework?) Does someone have a binary compatible python2.3 with readline support that they could email me and I could just drop in place of the executable listed above? Thanks, John Hunter

3 3

traceback looking for _bsddb
by Lincoln Rutledge Aug. 30, 2004

Aug. 30, 2004

Hi Python Mac'ers, I am running 10.3.5 with Jack Jansen's goodies installed, Tcl/Tk and IDLE are working. I am using Phil Pearson's cool cli blog program bzero, and it is looking for _bsddb. Here is the traceback: > Publish > opening state file /Users/lrutled/.bzero/the rock garden/directory.dbm > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/local/bin/bzero", line 40, in ? > go() > File "/usr/local/bin/bzero", line 37, in go > main.main() > File "b0lib/main.py", line 194, in main > File "b0lib/poll.py", line 153, in main > File "b0lib/publish.py", line 28, in __init__ > File > "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/anydbm.py", > line 82, in open > mod = __import__(result) > File > "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/dbhash.py", > line 5, in ? > import bsddb > File > "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/bsddb/__init__.py", > line 40, in ? > import _bsddb > ImportError: No module named _bsddb > Exception exceptions.AttributeError: "Publisher instance has no > attribute 'state'" in <bound method Publisher.__del__ of > <b0lib.publish.Publisher instance at 0x579918>> ignored I do not have Apple Developer Tools or the BSD SDK installed, so that may be the problem. Or a path problem or deity knows. If anyone has a clue for me, I'd sure appreciate it :) Phil thinks I'm missing something on the Python side, and I believe him as he has bzero running on a couple other platforms. Pack-man doesn't show any addons that I don't have that look promising, but maybe I need to investigate that some more. Or maybe the prefix "_" shouldn't be there (import _bsddb)... Anyhoo, thanks, Lincoln electro-magnetic pulses from French above ground nuke testing.

3 2

traceback looking for _bsddb
by Lincoln Rutledge Aug. 30, 2004

Aug. 30, 2004

Hi Python Mac'ers, I am running 10.3.5 with Jack Jansen's goodies installed, Tcl/Tk and IDLE are working. I am using Phil Pearson's cool cli blog program bzero, and it is looking for _bsddb. Here is the traceback: > Publish > opening state file /Users/lrutled/.bzero/the rock garden/directory.dbm > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/local/bin/bzero", line 40, in ? > go() > File "/usr/local/bin/bzero", line 37, in go > main.main() > File "b0lib/main.py", line 194, in main > File "b0lib/poll.py", line 153, in main > File "b0lib/publish.py", line 28, in __init__ > File > "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/anydbm.py", > line 82, in open > mod = __import__(result) > File > "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/dbhash.py", > line 5, in ? > import bsddb > File > "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/bsddb/__init__.py", > line 40, in ? > import _bsddb > ImportError: No module named _bsddb > Exception exceptions.AttributeError: "Publisher instance has no > attribute 'state'" in <bound method Publisher.__del__ of > <b0lib.publish.Publisher instance at 0x579918>> ignored I do not have Apple Developer Tools or the BSD SDK installed, so that may be the problem. Or a path problem or deity knows. If anyone has a clue for me, I'd sure appreciate it :) Phil thinks I'm missing something on the Python side, and I believe him as he has bzero running on a couple other platforms. Pack-man doesn't show any addons that I don't have that look promising, but maybe I need to investigate that some more. Or maybe the prefix "_" shouldn't be there (import _bsddb)... Anyhoo, thanks, Lincoln The salesman and the system analyst took off to spend a weekend in the forest, hunting bear. They'd rented a cabin, and, when they got there, took their backpacks off and put them inside. At which point the salesman turned to his friend, and said, "You unpack while I go and find us a bear." Puzzled, the analyst finished unpacking and then went and sat down on the porch. Soon he could hear rustling noises in the forest. The noises got nearer -- and louder -- and suddenly there was the salesman, running like hell across the clearing toward the cabin, pursued by one of the largest and most ferocious grizzly bears the analyst had ever seen. "Open the door!", screamed the salesman. The analyst whipped open the door, and the salesman ran to the door, suddenly stopped, and stepped aside. The bear, unable to stop, continued through the door and into the cabin. The salesman slammed the door closed and grinned at his friend. "Got him!", he exclaimed, "now, you skin this one and I'll go rustle us up another!"

1 0

[ann] aem 0.2.0 + osaterminology 0.1.0 posted
by has Aug. 29, 2004

Aug. 29, 2004

Hey, Posted another progress update. See: http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/appscript.html The aem package now includes aemreceive - a reworking of MiniAEFrame. To find out the raw codes for constructing object specifiers via aem.types, see osaterminology.tools.quickdoc. If anyone's any thoughts on how aemreceive should implement Apple Event Object Model support, please fire away. Also, any thoughts on how incoming Apple events should be handled in PyObjC-based apps? Cheers, has -- http://freespace.virgin.net/hamish.sanderson/

1 0

MacPython and .pyc files
by Rodney Somerstein Aug. 29, 2004

Aug. 29, 2004

I am learning to use Python under Mac OS 10.3.5 and Python 2.3. Despite what Learning Python tells me, Python doesn't seem to generate .pyc files. What changes do I need to make in order to have this happen? I suspect it is some kind of simple Unix permissions issue to allow Python to write the files. Thanks, -Rodney -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Rodney Somerstein rodneys(a)io.com

3 4