Where does a father's name go when the name has no family name? (Abiy Ahmed Ali, Ухнаагийн Хүрэлсүх, Бекмырза Чолпонбай уулу) #1253

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1. derek73

   self-assigned this

   on Nov 9, 2026
2. derek73

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   designChanges what the model can express (a shape decision)Changes what the model can express (a shape decision)

   on Nov 9, 2026
3. derek73

   added sub-issues on Nov 9, 2026

   • Where should an Ethiopian father's name go when there is no family name? (Abiy Ahmed Ali gives middle Ahmed; Abiy Ahmed gives family Ahmed) #1203
   • Should a Burmese choice read U and Daw as titles, and stop San joining the family? (Daw Aung San Suu Kyi gives given 'Daw', family 'San Suu Kyi') #1231
   • Should a Mongolian choice read the father's name first? (Ухнаагийн Хүрэлсүх gives given 'Ухнаагийн', family 'Хүрэлсүх') #1237
   • Should a Kyrgyz name read Father uulu as the family? (Бекмырза Чолпонбай уулу gives family уулу) #1187
   • Should the patronymic view read Kazakh -ұлы/-қызы written as one word? (Тилектес Серикбайулы АДАМБЕКОВ gives patronymic '') #1188
   • Should a family name after a بن chain stay out of the patronymic? (خالد بن سعد القحطاني gives patronymic 'بن سعد القحطاني') #1155
   • Should a Hebrew surname like בן גביר fill the patronymic view? (איתמר בן גביר gives patronymic 'בן גביר') #1210
   • Should S/O, D/O and W/O mark the parent's or husband's name, as bin does? (Ravi Kumar S/O Mohan Lal gives middle 'Kumar S/O Mohan') #1165
4. derek73

   added

   patronymicsFather's names and the patronymic view (rules/R9)Father's names and the patronymic view (rules/R9)

   name-orderName order, family-first and two family names (rules/O)Name order, family-first and two family names (rules/O)

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   on Nov 10, 2026
5. derek73

   added a sub-issue on Nov 10, 2026

   • Should a Mongolian choice read a glued father's initial as the family? (Ц.Сандаг-Очир gives given 'Ц.', family 'Сандаг-Очир') #1306
6. derek73 commented on Nov 12, 2026

   

   derek73

   on Nov 12, 2026

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   Decided 2026-11-12. Two statements settle the shape; each sub-issue becomes a pack, a rule value or a vocabulary entry under them. No default reading changes and no field is added.

   1. family is the name a convention files a person under, not necessarily an inherited one. Where a convention has no inherited name, the word that stands in the surname slot in that convention's own records is the family: the Mongolian father's name (the passport's surname field), a Kyrgyz Father uulu, the last word of an Ethiopian or a Burmese name. This is what the parse does by position today, and it is what a caller sorting or matching reads the field for.
   2. The patronymic view keeps rules/R9's basis: it is filled only by a word or a rule that says patronymic, never by a position. It may overlap family or be a part of it. A father's name that nothing in the text marks (Ethiopia) fills no view.

   What follows for the sub-issues:

   Issue	Outcome
   #1203 Ethiopia	Stays positional, and the father's name fills no view. Accepted: the same person written with two words and with three has a different family.
   #1237 Mongolia	A Mongolian pack with a family-first order, the father's name the family; a rule reading the genitive ending may fill the view.
   #1187 Kyrgyz	The issue's proposal: with no surname, the father's name and its marker are the family and the patronymic view alike.
   #1188 Kazakh	An ending rule fills the view, as the East Slavic one does; which choice turns it on is a value question.
   #1155 a family name after a بن chain	The view may be a part of the family: it stops before a family name that follows the chain, where a closed signal marks one. Which signal is a value question.
   #1210 Hebrew בן	Decided with #1257.
   #1231 Burma	A pack: the last word is the family by position, the honorifics titles.
   #1165 S/O, W/O	Out of this umbrella. The words after the marker are another person's name, which the model has no place for; it wants a decision of its own. Malaysian a/l and a/p, where the father's name is part of the legal name, read as bin does and are a vocabulary question.

   Matching across the two Ethiopian spellings (#1203) needs nothing new. Measured on master 2b39f23, 2026-11-12, Parser.matching().check:

   Pair	default parser	Parser(policy=Policy(middle_as_family=True))
   Abiy Ahmed Ali / Abiy Ahmed	family conflict, no shared key	family part-of-other, consistent, shared key ahmed;a
   Abiy Ahmed Ali / Abiy Ali	consistent	consistent (part-of-other)
   Abiy Ahmed / Abiy Ali	conflict	conflict
   Abiy Ahmed Ali / Abiy Bekele	conflict	conflict
   Abiy Ahmed Ali / Abiy Ahmed Bekele	conflict	conflict

   So a caller matching a list written under this convention builds the matcher from a parser that folds the middle names into the family, and keeps the default parser for the fields (rules/O3's switch costs 21.5 points of field agreement on ORCID's Ethiopian records, #1203). across-roles and other_readings do not reach the pair. The fold is right only for a list known to follow the convention: under it John Paul Smith and John Paul are consistent too.

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