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Description
parse("خالد بن سعد القحطاني") gives given 'خالد', family 'بن سعد القحطاني', patronymic 'بن سعد القحطاني'. In a Gulf name, the word after the chain is the family or tribal name (al-Qahtani), not part of the father's name. So the patronymic view should be 'بن سعد'.
A name with two links splits them across fields:
عبدالله بن يوسف بن ناصر الحربيgives middle 'بن يوسف', family 'بن ناصر الحربي', patronymic 'بن يوسف بن ناصر الحربي'- the Latin spelling behaves the same way:
Khalid bin Saad Alqahtanigives patronymic 'bin Saad Alqahtani'
Measured 2026-11-07:
- King Saud University faculty directory (every 10th page; 401 names written in Arabic script only): 169 hold
بن/بنت/ابنafter the first word. 162 of them have two or more words after the last particle, and in 148 of those 162 the last word starts withال,آلorبا. - JRC-Names (Arabic-script spellings): 1,185 hold a chain. 487 have two or more words after the last particle, and in 336 of those 487 the last word starts with
ال,آلorبا. 653 have exactly one word after it, the short form news text uses (محمد بن سلمان).
Why it reads this way: rules/R9 (the patronymic view) was written on Malay names. There, bin + the father's name ends the name, and the father's name may be two words (Ahmad bin Abdul Rahman). Gulf names add a family name after the chain. In Latin script the two shapes can't be told apart: bin Abdul Rahman (a two-word father's name) and bin Saad Alqahtani (father plus family) are both "bin + two words". In Arabic script they can be: rules/P12 already lists the words that complete عبد, so بن عبد الرحمن is one father's name. And a final word starting with ال after a one-word father's name is usually a family name.
Questions:
- Fields: should
خالد بن سعد القحطانيread family 'القحطاني', with 'بن سعد' as a middle name? Or should the family keep the chain (as it does today) and only the view change? - The view: should it stop before a trailing word that isn't part of a father's name? And in Arabic script only, the way P12 decided for
abdul? - Two links: should
بن يوسف بن ناصرstay in one field, rather than split between middle and family? - Is a family-name test on the last word's
ال/آل/باprefix allowed, or is it the "statistical guess wearing a script's clothes" that decisions/P12 refused forعبد? If refused, what closed signal is left?
Activity
derek73 commentedon Nov 9, 2026
Two more shapes from Maghrebi lists (2026-11-08, OpenSanctions parliaments of Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria, Arabic-script names):
بنsurname with no chain. In Moroccan and Tunisian names,بن Xat the end is usually a fixed family name (بن جلون, Benjelloun), not a father's name. All 52بن/ابنnames on those lists fill the patronymic view, and 39 of them aregiven بن Xwith one word after the particle:حسن بن عمرgives family 'بن عمر' and patronymic 'بن عمر'. The family reading is right; the view is wrong for these names and right for the Gulf short form (محمد بن سلمان). It's the same split Should a Hebrew surname likeבן גבירfill the patronymic view? (איתמר בן גבירgives patronymic 'בן גביר') #1210 describes for Hebrewבן, and the script can't tell them apart.Karim ben Ali ben Salah Trabelsi.benis unlisted, so the default reads it right (middle 'ben Ali ben Salah', family 'Trabelsi'). Listingbenas a particle would make it read the way this issue describes forبن(family 'ben Salah Trabelsi'). On OpenSanctions' copy of Tunisia's counter-terrorism list that's 140 of 158 right today, 24 of 158 withbenlisted. So an answer here also decides whetherbencan be listed (Shouldbenbe a family-name particle in Maghrebi and Israeli surnames? (Karim Ben Salahgives middle 'Ben', family 'Salah') #1248).Abiy Ahmed Ali,Ухнаагийн Хүрэлсүх,Бекмырза Чолпонбай уулу) #1253