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Should a standalone ال before a name read as the clan prefix آل? (حسن علي ال يحيى gives family 'يحيى') #1150

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@derek73

parse("حسن علي محمد ال يحيى") gives middle 'علي محمد ال', family 'يحيى'. parse("حسن آل يحيى") reads family 'آل يحيى', because ar.toml lists آل ("family of", as in Al Saud) as a clan particle. ال is the same word written without the madda mark, but it is excluded as the article (#269: "normally attached to the word it determines, and too ambiguous standing alone").

Measured 2026-11-07, every standalone ال in JRC-Names (28 spellings; standalone آل appears in 180):

  • 17 are the clan prefix: ال مكتوم, ال خليفة, ال ثاني, ال سعود, ال الشيخ, ال الصباح
  • 9 are cut off at the end of the news text (X بن Y ال)
  • 2 are the English given name Al (ال باتشينو, ال گور)
  • 0 are the article split from its word

An Iraqi polytechnic's staff list (https://iku.atu.edu.iq/?page_id=160) has 2 of 125 names with it (… ال علي, … ال يحيى). Its heading also says what each name holds, "الأسم الرباعي واللقب": four given names and then a family name. So ال X is the family name there.

Questions:

  • Should ال become the hamza-less spelling of آل (same_as), like ابو beside أبو?
  • At the start of a name it is either the given name Al or the clan prefix. آل is never-given, so the P1 fold would read ال باتشينو as family 'ال باتشينو'. Should ال get a given reading, making it an ambiguous particle, or is that cost accepted?

Activity

  1. self-assigned this
    on Nov 8, 2026
  2. added
    vocabularyFixed by a word-list entry: per-word vocabulary and language packs
    on Nov 8, 2026
  3. derek73 commented on Nov 8, 2026

    @derek73
    OwnerAuthor

    Five more standalone ال in the King Saud University directory sample (2026-11-07, 401 names in Arabic script), all of them the clan prefix: ال الشيخ, ال ابراهيم, ال مسفر, ال حمود, ال مهديه. سارة علي ال ناصر gives middle 'علي ال', family 'ناصر'. None is the article.

  4. added this to the 3.1 milestone on Nov 8, 2026
  5. added
    particlesParticles and surname prefixes (rules/P)
    non-latin-scriptNames written in a script other than Latin (rules/W)
    and removed on Nov 10, 2026
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non-latin-scriptNames written in a script other than Latin (rules/W)particlesParticles and surname prefixes (rules/P)vocabularyFixed by a word-list entry: per-word vocabulary and language packs

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