Size Change: +1.59 kB (+0.02%)

Total Size: 8.75 MB

_{compressed-size-action}

Conceptually, the menu makes sense. There are multiple template-related actions, and grouping them together in the UI feels logical.

My only concern is adding another item to the editor header, which is already quite crowded. That said, this is more a structural issue with the header itself, which would benefit from better organisation. I’m not sure that should necessarily block this change, but it’s something to keep in mind. Interested to hear others’ thoughts.

Edit: One thing I would probably change is to remove the icons in the menu. All those icons in close proximity is quite noisy.

Hmmm into the editor header.... I kind of overlooked it until I noticed the comment from James. I initially thought that this would only be an updated template dialog box. As in clicking the Template to see these options. Here:

Looking at the above screenshot the current header area feels clean. I see really no need to add a template icon into it as it should be good enough to just update the Page -> Template popup box. As the Page area gives a good overview of important areas associated with the page or post.

My only concern is adding another item to the editor header, which is already quite crowded. That said, this is more a structural issue with the header itself, which would benefit from better organisation. I’m not sure that should necessarily block this change, but it’s something to keep in mind. Interested to hear others’ thoughts.

I agree with this, and the design linked is good. But I do feel like the amount of buttons argument should block this change. For the moment, it's untenable to add more buttons there. But based on later conversation, I feel like there's a proposed path forward.

An alternative if we have to have this in the header, is to use the template indicator here, and make it a button:

This one exists only in the post editor, when "Show template" is enabled. We could make it permanent, and swap between template and header icons based on whether "Show template" was enabled or not. But it would nevertheless make it less discoverable, but at least it wouldn't duplicate the same icon twice, and it would add it to the header.

This is what I am seeing of the top right area of the post in WP 7.0 beta 3 with the Gutenberg plugin activated.

I am not seeing the template icon, but it seems like a good placement of it. As it brings in a connection to the full site.

@jasmussen that works for me.

I don't know that the icon needs to change based on whether the template is visible or not though. The icon basically communicates "click here for template actions/options" so I think it's reasonable for it to be static.

To be honest I do slightly prefer the track this conversation was on, which kept it in the inspector. But not strongly, so not blocking anything here.

I don't know that the icon needs to change based on whether the template is visible or not though. The icon basically communicates "click here for template actions/options" so I think it's reasonable for it to be static.

Well in practice I don't know that has been clear from its context either. Nevertheless I'm sharing it as context for why it was initially added: it was added when "Show template" was moved to the preview dropdown, as an indicator of whether the template is showing or not. So if we change this, we're abandoning that idea. Which may be fine, just noting we should be clear eyed about it.

To be honest I do slightly prefer the track #76104 (comment) was on, which kept it in the inspector. But not strongly, so not blocking anything here.

@jasmussen just to make sure.. You're referring to how the templates should be changed and not about the template icon/button in the centered header, right? Because I'm currently working on this (actually the dropdown in the centered header is already in this PR) trying to handle all the other cases about classic themes.

In general I think this PR will probably get big enough without any changes to how the templates are swapped.

You're referring to how the templates should be changed and not about the template icon/button in the centered header, right?

What I'm saying is that I think template actions should not be in the header. They should be in the inspector, like they are today. But I'm also saying I defer to popular opinion if need be.

The overwhelming concern for me remains: there's just not room to add stuff in the header. There's an angle on adding it to the document title as I suggested, but even that feels slightly like stretching it.

The overwhelming concern for me remains: there's just not room to add stuff in the header. There's an angle on adding it to the document title as I suggested, but even that feels slightly like stretching it.

That was the change I have already pushed and referred to (document title)..

So it seems to me that I should pause this PR and get a design consensus about where the template options should live.. Who else should we involve to get a consensus for this?

The dropdown IMO looks good. It can live where you have it, I just personally find it not discoverable enough. I'd love to see that same dropdown exist here instead:

But I'd love @jameskoster's thoughts here so we can unblock this. Sorry about the headache.

I like the action in both editor's header, as per Jay's suggestion, and the block inspector. I don't see a problem with having template-related actions in both places.

I like the action in both editor's header, as per Jay's suggestion, and the block inspector. I don't see a problem with having template-related actions in both places.

The issue here is that we try to consolidate QuickEdit and Editor Inspector using DataForm. Template field with DataForm right now exposes a way to change the template but doesn't include the other template actions. If we end up wanting to preserve these options in the template field's edit there would be no reason to add (duplicate) these actions elsewhere in the UI.

If we want to include all these actions in the Inspector then I think they should live outside of the DataForm section because most of the actions are not about editing fields, and are not ergonomic in the Quick edit context. The only field that should live inside the DataForm (and be accessible from Quick edit) is the Template field itself. I think it could function like this mockup:

For the other actions, perhaps a "Template" panel (visible only in the Inspector, not Quick edit) could work.

At this point it seems worth highlighting that with this change, plus #76246, we're potentially redesigning quite a few Inspector elements. It might be worth consolidating everything into a single mockup to share on #76076.

Noting we also have a template tab:

All of these are good instincts, I agree they deserve good exploration. I do wonder though, if those designs need to happen before Nik does more work? Or is there a minimal way we can bring the value from this image to bear? I was always thinking this is what opens when you click the template dropdown in the inspector.

The only field that should live inside the DataForm (and be accessible from Quick edit) is the Template field itself. I think it could function like this mockup:

@jameskoster just noting that this mockup will be only for block themes and we'd use a simple select (or your design without previews) for classic themes (with and without template support) because we can't have previews for those.

I do wonder though, if those designs need to happen before Nik does more work?

Yeah, that would be good 😄 . I spent some time already here but it's fine because it probably helped to move on with the issue faster.

I was always thinking this is what opens when you click the template dropdown in the inspector.

This doesn't make sense to me because we're using DataForm for that section of the UI, and DataForm is about editing fields. Any actions a user can take there should relate directly to editing the template field. "Edit template" and "Show template" are not about field editing. They also make no sense from the Quick edit perspective, where we want to show this same set of options. Finally, to enable this design would require the addition of a whole bunch of complexity in DataForm... just to support this one niche scenario doesn't seem worth it.

My overall feeling remains; the template field in the Inspector DataForm should be simplistic; it's just a mechanism for changing the active template. For block themes we can use a radio card UI with previews like the mockup in my previous comment, and for classic themes it can be a select or combobox (as it is on trunk currently). Anything beyond that should live elsewhere. Whether that's in the header (like this PR), a Template panel in the Inspector, or a Template tab isn't 100% clear, and I agree needs more design.

That's fair, but I would steer our instincts towards the inspector rather than the header, if we can.

JFYI I extracted part of this PR here in order to make template field work well with the experiment enabled.

There will be a follow up to update the actual UI for changing a template based on the designs for all the types of themes.

Superseded by #76539