Middle of the night games in the group stages, 2am-5am UK time kick offs:
BBC has 10 graveyard slots with 3 last group game doubles. Best game Haiti v Scotland
ITV also has 10 graveyard slots with 1 last group game double, none of them look like they will have people desperate to stay up to watch, maybe Argentina v Algeria being Messi's first game of the tournament.
For us viewers it doesn't matter who seems to have the better picks because they are both FTA broadcasters. If the World Cup rights were shared like how the FA Cup is now that would be a different story...
Middle of the night games in the group stages, 2am-5am UK time kick offs:
BBC has 10 graveyard slots with 3 last group game doubles. Best game Haiti v Scotland
ITV also has 10 graveyard slots with 1 last group game double, none of them look like they will have people desperate to stay up to watch, maybe Argentina v Algeria being Messi's first game of the tournament.
It's almost as if the pick process is designed to produce an even split.
Also Uruguay v Spain is the strongest overnight pick in the group stage and ITV have that. I think it deserves a mention.
Middle of the night games in the group stages, 2am-5am UK time kick offs:
BBC has 10 graveyard slots with 3 last group game doubles. Best game Haiti v Scotland
ITV also has 10 graveyard slots with 1 last group game double, none of them look like they will have people desperate to stay up to watch, maybe Argentina v Algeria being Messi's first game of the tournament.
It's almost as if the pick process is designed to produce an even split.
Also Uruguay v Spain is the strongest overnight pick in the group stage and ITV have that. I think it deserves a mention.
…other than Scotland v Haiti, of course.
ROI’s two potential overnight games are split evenly so them qualifying wouldn’t make any difference there.
I'm coming to the conclusion that it's an even split, as the alternating pick system always produces an even split, and because there are people claiming decisive wins for both broadcasters, which usually means it's pretty even 😂.
That's logical but I don't see it as an even split in terms of matches chosen this time. But ITV had second, fourth, sixth etc pick so can't moan about it; they clearly feel they've got the best available. Whether they've done a good job with it is a different debate!
I'm coming to the conclusion that it's an even split, as the alternating pick system always produces an even split, and because there are people claiming decisive wins for both broadcasters, which usually means it's pretty even 😂.
That's logical but I don't see it as an even split in terms of matches chosen this time. But ITV had second, fourth, sixth etc pick so can't moan about it; they clearly feel they've got the best available. Whether they've done a good job with it is a different debate!
A lot will ride on how far England get, as usual. Last time that fell in the favour of ITV. With the 3-1 advantage in knockout round first picks you’d say the BBC should probably edge it this time but there’s always the chance of things going wrong in the QF (or even in the group stage).
I'm coming to the conclusion that it's an even split, as the alternating pick system always produces an even split, and because there are people claiming decisive wins for both broadcasters, which usually means it's pretty even 😂.
That's logical but I don't see it as an even split in terms of matches chosen this time. But ITV had second, fourth, sixth etc pick so can't moan about it; they clearly feel they've got the best available. Whether they've done a good job with it is a different debate!
First pick is pretty powerful this time as there are 3 primetime knockout matches, the BBC automatically get 2 of them, that then leaves 4 England games - 1 unattractive knockout match and 3 group games, which are evenly split. ITV have been forced into giving 3 knockout games to the BBC just because they had second pick overall due to the kick off times.
If ITV had had first pick then they'd have ended up with 2 knockout games and 2 group games.
I don’t see the BBC prioritising L16/L32 over the Croatia game so I think the picks went:
1. SF first pick
2. England v Croatia
3. England v Ghana
4. QF first pick
5. L16 first pick
6. England v Panama/Croatia v Ghana
7. L32 first pick
The L16 and L32 may be the other way around but I doubt it mattered. Itv clearly wanted group games.
I think it does matter as I think ITV would have chosen the Round of 32 match over England v Panama. But yes that's a possibility I agree.
Remember that if England finish second in the group, the L32 game will be starting at midnight on a school night - or even 2:30am on a Saturday if they somehow contrive to finish third. Think it’s perfectly understandable if that was just too much of a risk for them compared to the absolute security of the Panama game.
That QF1 with a decent chance of it being England v Brazil is such a tantalizing prospect I struggle to imagine that the BBC would have passed on it if it was still there at pick 3. They would have known they they were still guaranteed an England group game at pick 5.
Good to see two Scotland group games on the BBC, and hopefully it'll be the BBC Scotland team that get to cover them UK-wide (maybe with Kelly Cates presenting).
I think it's a fairly even split all things considered, although it would be good to see the detail in terms of pick order for the knockout rounds.
Good to see two Scotland group games on the BBC, and hopefully it'll be the BBC Scotland team that get to cover them UK-wide (maybe with Kelly Cates presenting).
I think it's a fairly even split all things considered, although it would be good to see the detail in terms of pick order for the knockout rounds.
Based on what is and isn’t mentioned in the two press releases I think we can reasonably assume the following:
Picks three and four probably go BBC 3 and ITV 4, on the assumption ITV would surely mention having two of the first three rather than “five of the first nine”, but no way of knowing for sure.
Ro16: BBC, ITV, BBC, BBC, ITV, ?, ?, ?
The final three there are likely split 2-1 in favour of ITV, seeing as the BBC would surely mention having five of the eight, but no clues as to in which order seeing as ITV didn’t mention the Last 16 at all.
QFs: ITV, ITV, BBC, ITV
Semi finals: BBC, ITV
Would be good to find out the full list at some point though yes.
Unless I’ve missed something we don’t yet know who’s got the Third Place Play Off either. If we knew that then we’d be able to work out how many of the missing picks in the Last 32 each side likely has, but alas.
The huge problem ITV faced was they don't know which of England's games in R32 and R16 will be overnight.
They obviously felt they just couldn't risk taking either game - with the result they get the Panama game instead.
The problem with Panama is it could be a dead rubber - but it'll obviously still rate very well, though probably not really massive.
In contrast, BBC taking England in R32 and R16 know they are getting one good KO time and one overnight.
So my sense is BBC has clearly won out - for two reasons outside ITV's control - BBC had 1st pick and the impossible conundrum re R32 and R16 KO times.
That QF1 with a decent chance of it being England v Brazil is such a tantalizing prospect I struggle to imagine that the BBC would have passed on it if it was still there at pick 3. They would have known they they were still guaranteed an England group game at pick 5.
If the quarter final was that attractive, the BBC would have taken it with the first pick. The BBC clearly think there’s a decent chance that England (or another home nation!) will win a quarter final, which makes the quarter final slightly less attractive.
The bookies have the odds of England’s elimination fairly linear; however, I think the last 16 match is the problem game whether they win the group or not. I can see why ITV might have prioritised the Croatia game over the quarter final. I think they’d have actually been quite happy to have Croatia, Ghana and one of Last 16 or Last 32.
The problem with Panama is it could be a dead rubber - but it'll obviously still rate very well, though probably not really massive.
The Panama match is unlikely to be a dead rubber because they will probably need more than six points to ensure they top the group. This one is 10pm on a Saturday night so it's potentially a large audience in pubs and beer gardens.
The BBC have missed out on a potential England v Brazil QF (they showed the one in 2002), but other than that I think they have everything they wanted.
The problem with Panama is it could be a dead rubber - but it'll obviously still rate very well, though probably not really massive.
The Panama match is unlikely to be a dead rubber because they will probably need more than six points to ensure they top the group. This one is 10pm on a Saturday night so it's potentially a large audience in pubs and beer gardens.
The BBC have missed out on a potential England v Brazil QF (they showed the one in 2002), but other than that I think they have everything they wanted.
Of course - but the point is the jeopardy of England potentially going out will pull in significantly more viewers than the issue of the result determining who England will play in R32.
The nation isn't going to be on the edge of its seat re who we will play - and indeed if we win the group we won't even know who we would play - as we'll play a 3rd place team which could be from Group J or Group K - and Groups J and K only have their final matches after we play Panama!
Comments
BBC has 10 graveyard slots with 3 last group game doubles. Best game Haiti v Scotland
ITV also has 10 graveyard slots with 1 last group game double, none of them look like they will have people desperate to stay up to watch, maybe Argentina v Algeria being Messi's first game of the tournament.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cn81y63wn27o
It's almost as if the pick process is designed to produce an even split.
Also Uruguay v Spain is the strongest overnight pick in the group stage and ITV have that. I think it deserves a mention.
…other than Scotland v Haiti, of course.
ROI’s two potential overnight games are split evenly so them qualifying wouldn’t make any difference there.
I think ITV went a bit cautious with England, but have done fine overall.
A lot will ride on how far England get, as usual. Last time that fell in the favour of ITV. With the 3-1 advantage in knockout round first picks you’d say the BBC should probably edge it this time but there’s always the chance of things going wrong in the QF (or even in the group stage).
First pick is pretty powerful this time as there are 3 primetime knockout matches, the BBC automatically get 2 of them, that then leaves 4 England games - 1 unattractive knockout match and 3 group games, which are evenly split. ITV have been forced into giving 3 knockout games to the BBC just because they had second pick overall due to the kick off times.
If ITV had had first pick then they'd have ended up with 2 knockout games and 2 group games.
Then BBC get 10 mins to ring ITV with pick 3
Surely it rarely if ever actually gets anywhere near the 10 minute mark, they’d be there for a week !
1. SF first pick
2. England v Croatia
3. England v Ghana
4. QF first pick
5. L16 first pick
6. England v Panama/Croatia v Ghana
7. L32 first pick
The L16 and L32 may be the other way around but I doubt it mattered. Itv clearly wanted group games.
Think the broadcasters will probably think that, Knowing Me, Knowing You, we'll just Take a Chance.
I think it does matter as I think ITV would have chosen the Round of 32 match over England v Panama. But yes that's a possibility I agree.
Remember that if England finish second in the group, the L32 game will be starting at midnight on a school night - or even 2:30am on a Saturday if they somehow contrive to finish third. Think it’s perfectly understandable if that was just too much of a risk for them compared to the absolute security of the Panama game.
I think it's a fairly even split all things considered, although it would be good to see the detail in terms of pick order for the knockout rounds.
Based on what is and isn’t mentioned in the two press releases I think we can reasonably assume the following:
Ro32: BBC, ITV, ?, ?, BBC, ITV, BBC, ITV, ITV, BBC, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?
Picks three and four probably go BBC 3 and ITV 4, on the assumption ITV would surely mention having two of the first three rather than “five of the first nine”, but no way of knowing for sure.
Ro16: BBC, ITV, BBC, BBC, ITV, ?, ?, ?
The final three there are likely split 2-1 in favour of ITV, seeing as the BBC would surely mention having five of the eight, but no clues as to in which order seeing as ITV didn’t mention the Last 16 at all.
QFs: ITV, ITV, BBC, ITV
Semi finals: BBC, ITV
Would be good to find out the full list at some point though yes.
Unless I’ve missed something we don’t yet know who’s got the Third Place Play Off either. If we knew that then we’d be able to work out how many of the missing picks in the Last 32 each side likely has, but alas.
Couldn't help but chuckle at this:
They obviously felt they just couldn't risk taking either game - with the result they get the Panama game instead.
The problem with Panama is it could be a dead rubber - but it'll obviously still rate very well, though probably not really massive.
In contrast, BBC taking England in R32 and R16 know they are getting one good KO time and one overnight.
So my sense is BBC has clearly won out - for two reasons outside ITV's control - BBC had 1st pick and the impossible conundrum re R32 and R16 KO times.
If the quarter final was that attractive, the BBC would have taken it with the first pick. The BBC clearly think there’s a decent chance that England (or another home nation!) will win a quarter final, which makes the quarter final slightly less attractive.
The bookies have the odds of England’s elimination fairly linear; however, I think the last 16 match is the problem game whether they win the group or not. I can see why ITV might have prioritised the Croatia game over the quarter final. I think they’d have actually been quite happy to have Croatia, Ghana and one of Last 16 or Last 32.
The Panama match is unlikely to be a dead rubber because they will probably need more than six points to ensure they top the group. This one is 10pm on a Saturday night so it's potentially a large audience in pubs and beer gardens.
The BBC have missed out on a potential England v Brazil QF (they showed the one in 2002), but other than that I think they have everything they wanted.
Of course - but the point is the jeopardy of England potentially going out will pull in significantly more viewers than the issue of the result determining who England will play in R32.
The nation isn't going to be on the edge of its seat re who we will play - and indeed if we win the group we won't even know who we would play - as we'll play a 3rd place team which could be from Group J or Group K - and Groups J and K only have their final matches after we play Panama!