If you came here to alert me to DS for post-1932 American Politics (AP2), climate change, BLP, GMO, or anything else included in the WP:Arbitration enforcement log, please be aware that I am PERMANENTLY AWARE - awareness is tattooed on my - so there is no need to post another DS alert.
Point to this notice to CYA.
Get your own Ds aware filter here!
"What is the lure of extremist rhetoric in democratic controversy? After all, most citizens are not extremists. Part of the lure lies in the fact that it is easier to believe passionately in a value or cause without regard to subtlety, reasoned argument, probabilistic evidence, and vigorously tested scientific theory or fact. Expressions of single-minded visions for solving problems and changing society can make complexity and uncertainty, frustration and regret, all appear to evaporate. Another part of the lure is that having comrades-in-argument is comforting." ~Amy Gutman (excerpt from The Lure & Dangers of Extremist Rhetoric)
Reach for the stars, and become one!
The Optimist
If you see your glass as half-empty, pour it into a smaller glass and stop bitching!
Power of Media
“The media's the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses.” ~Malcolm X (1963)
"ALGORITHM-RANKED search results and social media news feeds have contributed to the creation of ‘echo chambers’ and ‘filter bubbles’, where people reinforce their beliefs rather than dialogue across differences." ~ World trends in freedom of expression and media development, global report 2017/2018 pg 67 UNESCO.
Have you no sense of decency?
We must wear our critical thinking caps, and try not to repeat history as a single incident may parallel various incidents throughout the wide spectrum of politics.
Getting an editor blocked or t-banned
If you get an editor blocked or t-banned for expressing their opinion, then you're not helping to build the encyclopedia. You're destroying it. Atsme💬📧 15:18, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
ARCA: As a separate issue, anything that relies on DS will fail. The only way forward is for arb com to directly regulate conduct by removing prejudiced editors and admins, either from an area or from WP, not trying to adopt rules about just how disruptive they can be. ~DGG
Signpost News from the WMF: Our role is to accurately describe the real world, with the hoped-for result that those wishing to improve it will use the information wisely. Our job is not direct action, except in defense of our right to freely publish. ~DGG
Mental Force and the Volitional Brain
In fact, the belief that our thoughts can influence our actions is so basic to our entire idea of ourselves and our place in nature, and is so essential to our actual functioning in this world, that any suggestion that
this idea is false would become plausible only under extremely coercive conditions, such as its incompatibility with basic physics. But no such coercion exists. Contemporary physical theory does allow our experiences, per se, to be truly efficacious and non-reducible: our experiences are elements of the causal structure that do necessary things that nothing else in the theory can do. Thus science, if pursued with sufficient care, demands no cloistering of disciplines, or interpretation as user illusions of the apparent causal effects of our conscious thoughts upon our physical actions. ~ Henry P. Stapp, (May 1999), Physics Division, Berkeley National Laboratory, title="Attention, Intention, and Will in Quantum Physics", published in the Journal of Consciousness Studies, : 35 .
We are never sure if a friend's heart is pure because trust is earned and I am concerned that what we know isn't always so. Burma-shave
I'm leaving this link for any editor who may be feeling a little stressed on the job. It has a very calming effect. Relax - enjoy - and once your blood pressure is back where it should be, resume editing.
Making this page mobile friendly outweighs user friendly, or so I'm told.
“Scientific results are always provisional, susceptible to being overturned by some future experiment or observation. Scientists rarely proclaim an absolute truth or absolute certainty. Uncertainty is inevitable at the frontiers of knowledge.”~ National Geographic Magazine
Atsme's contribution to science: Life is all about having fun so if you're not living, you're not having any fun.AtsmeTalk📧
The most useful used skill I've discovered for Alexa - Alexa, call me. Now, if I can only get it to work with my keys.
Autocorrect has become my worst enema.
On a sign at a restaurant in Texas: Treat your Mom to a Margarita! You're probably the reason she drinks.
Research reveals that people who drink heavily are much more likely to experience retrospective memory loss. Isn't that why we drink?
I can fix stupid, but it's gonna hurt.
I have never faked a sarcasm in my life!
I'm not insulting you, I’m describing you.
I have never let my schooling interfere with my education. (attributed to Mark Twain, but could have been Grant Allen)
Atsme is not just a writer, she's award winning...she won a place in the psycho ward.
Ah, the effect of being affected while being affected by the effectiveness of the effect of the affectation of the effector's effective affecting effect. Infective, no?jc37
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. All the pain is felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid.
How Do I Know?
I don’t know how much I don’t know because there’s no way to gage how much I don’t know when I don’t know what it is I don’t know, so stop telling me I should've known.
There has to be some merit to "ignorance is bliss" Atsme✍🏻📧
Words
People who confuse the words "burro" and "burrow" don't know
their ass from a hole in the ground.
And then comes the time when you finally realize that you don't know shit.
Snake in the Bullpen
"I come from an environment where, if you see a snake, you kill it. At GM, if you see a snake, the first thing you do is go hire a consultant on snakes. Then you get a committee on snakes, and then you discuss it for a couple of years. The most likely course of action is -- nothing. You figure, the snake hasn't bitten anybody yet, so you just let him crawl around on the factory floor. We need to build an environment where the first guy who sees the snake kills it." ~Ross Perot
Terms We Use
We need to rethink some of the terms we use in the English language.
"I'm sorry, but you two appear to be:
treating each other civilly
accepting the possibility that your own actions might not have been correct
trying to work out the best thing to do for the project without concern for you[r] own egos.
I don't know where you people think you are, but you definitely don't understand how WP:AN is supposed to work. Where's the disrespect? The attacking of each other's characters and motives? The entertaining temper tantrums? Please immediately review other threads on this noticeboard, so you can better participate in WP:AN. Right now you look like rookies.
I don't do AFD, so I have no opinion on whether to relist or not (couldn't hurt, tho, right?), but that's a good example of what should be going on here; useless babble without any helpful outcome. --barneca (talk) 9:57 pm, 16 September 2008, Tuesday (10 years, 8 months, 12 days ago) (UTC−5)[1]
Carrots may be good for your eyes, but booze will double your vision.
To me, "drink responsibly" means don't spill it.
Useful quotes relative to WP:PAG
To say it in WikiVoice, or not?
While this list of sources is really good and does establish "commonly used by reliable sources" I think we should additionally ask ourselves - what added benefit is there to Wikipedia saying it "in our own voice" as against simply reporting in a neutral manner that it is common for his comments to be described as racist.
As of this moment, we are engaging in what I think is admirable short-term restraint. We say in the lede "He has a history of making controversial [weasel words] comments." That's fine as far as it goes, because 'controversial comments' is true, and is neither positive nor negative as an evaluation. Sometimes controversial comments are good, sometimes they are bad. Fine.
But we are at the same time here being too cautious, I think, in that we fail to inform the reader as to why the comments are controversial. Is he saying things that might be controversial in Iowa like "Gay marriage should be legal" or "Marijuana prohibition has done more harm than good"? No, actually.
So I think we should cautiously say something like "He has a history of making comments that have commonly been referred to as racist.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]" Well, maybe 9 footnotes is excessive, but you see my point. We have more than enough to make the point that the reader needs to know, and I think the point is stronger than if we simply say, in our own voice, that he has a history of making racist comments. ~Jimbo Wales (talk) 9:57 am, 19 June 2018, Tuesday (19 days ago) (UTC−5)
To include it in a BLP, or not?
BLPs wherein a subject's work, beliefs or ideologies are perhaps more controversial than the actual subject, should not become focused on bolstering and subsequently refuting the subject's views or theories rather than actually defining the subject. In many cases this may in fact be due to the subject trying to push their own ideas, while others work diligently to refute them, but many such cases involve editors who have no affiliation with the subject other than a personal belief/disbelief in their work. A person's biography is not a good place to debate scientific theory or ideological beliefs; such debates belong in the articles that focus on those topics. For BLPs, it is enough to simply state what their views are and link to the articles which expand on those views. ~
(quote by Zaerethedited for brevity; Jimbo Walesagreed with Zaereth’s explanation.)
Politics, presidents and NPOV
I'd like to add that I don't mind a little bit of personal chit-chat here about politics, I'd like to always seek to tie it back to Wikipedia. We have chosen a very tough job: NPOV. Dislike for the President, fear about things that are happening in the world, may make it emotionally harder to remain neutral, but remain neutral we must. I happen to personally think that given the decline in quality of the media across the board (there are still fantastic journalists out there, but overall the landscape isn't great) the best way for us to help the world heal is neutrality. --[2] Jimbo Wales (talk)] 3:12 pm, 8 January 2019, Tuesday (UTC−6)
Deprecated sources & when to IAR
Jimbo's response to an editor's statement to not cite The Daily Mail as a source in articles because it has been deprecated. "No, that is not true. It is true that the Daily Mail is generally prohibited as a source, but in Wikipedia terminology that does not mean an absolute ban. Exceptions to the general rule can and do exist, per WP:IAR as well as general common sense in specific circumstances." [3]--Jimbo Wales
Free thought isn't free anymore
“I have no beef with my colleagues, many of whom I admire and are friends,” Sullivan tweeted. “The underlying reasons for the split are pretty self-evident.” But he expressed solidarity with Weiss: “The mob bullied and harassed a young woman for thoughtcrimes. And her editors stood by and watched.”
(Excerpt from NYTimes)
Writing for the opponent
"Writing for the opponent is an important trait of good editors. They must be able to divorce themselves from their own POV so much that they can bend over backwards to aid in the writing of content which documents views they do not like. They must never block the inclusion of content which opposes their own POV or political positions. If they cannot do this, they should recuse themselves from the topic and edit in other areas. Editors who are unwilling or unable to write for the opponent are incapable of truly understanding or abiding by the NPOV policy. As such they will always cause problems."
(see WP:NPOV means neutral editors, not neutral content)
Volunteering
Please be aware that you are legally responsible for all of your contributions, edits, and re-use of Wikimedia content under the laws of the United States of America and other applicable laws (which may include the laws where you live or where you view or edit content). This means it is important that you use caution when posting content. In light of this responsibility, we have some rules about what you cannot post, most of which is either for your own protection or for the protection of other users like yourself. Please keep in mind that the content we host is for general informational purposes only, so if you need expert advice for a particular question (such as medical, legal, or financial issues), you should seek the help of a licensed or qualified professional. We also include other important notices and disclaimers, so please read these Terms of Use in their entirety. WMF Terms of Use
When to turn in the bit
My views on this are quite simple. An admin telling a user to "grow the fuck up" is absolutely unacceptable under any circumstances and is ground for immediate desysopping. If we care about having a serious, thoughtful, kind, adult and mature community (which I assume was the sentiment behind that unseemly outburst) then we have to model that behavior ourselves as admins. There's a bit of sad irony in behaving in a juvenile and bullying fashion in an attempt to get others to behave better. Bwilkins, I recommend that you turn in your bit and take a break from being an admin for 6 months and then return if you feel you can handle the job in a more responsible fashion.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 13:49, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
What Am I Doing Here...
Sometimes the first step toward forgiveness is realizing the other person was born an idiot.
Did you ever stop to consider that being equal may hold you back?
Do you want to make money from Wikipedia? It's easy! Log out and go to work!
For a lesson in the proper English application of the F-word see:this video
Is "group think" the academic version of "mob mentality"?Conformity!
Wikipedia: where anyone can edit and enjoy the benefits of income equality.
If my blood pressure is too low, I drink red wine.
For high blood pressure, I drink scotch.
When I have a cold, I drink schnapps.”
My friend asked, “When do you drink water?”
I replied, “I’ve never been that sick.”
My medical entrance exam:
When I was young, I decided to enroll in medical school.
On the entrance exam, we were asked to unscramble the letters...
PNEIS
...to form the name of an important human body part that is most useful when erect.
The students who answered SPINE are doctors today, and the rest of us are editing Wikipedia.
Four Worms
Four worms were placed in 4 separate test tubes:
1st in beer
2nd in wine
3rd in whiskey
4th in mineral water
The next day, the teacher shows the results:
The 1st worm in beer - dead.
The 2nd in wine - dead.
The 3rd in whiskey - dead.
The 4th in mineral water - alive and in good health.
The teacher asks the class:
What did you learn from this experience?
A student responds:
Whoever drinks beer, wine and whiskey does not have worms.
Wait! There’s more!
I know a guy who's addicted to brake fluid. He says he can stop any time.
I stayed up all night to see where the sun went. Then it dawned on me.
This girl said she recognized me from the vegetarian club, but I'd never met herbivore.
Atsme's Education
I was educated at MIT, then went to Harvard. After that, things got fishy.
If only...
...sarcasm burned calories.
...you knew, you would know.
...closed minds came with closed mouths.
...mosquitos sucked fat instead of blood.
...the good died young, we'd be here forever.
...my teeth were as white as my legs.
...more people were fluent in silence.
When A Grizzly Attacks
Hiker to park ranger, "Ranger, how does one survive a bear attack?"
Ranger replies, Easy...remove the "f" from the word "way".
Hiker responds, "There's no "f" in "way".
Ranger replies, "Exactly."
Thought Grenades...
It is much easier to ride a horse in the direction it is going. ~Abraham Lincoln
It gets late early out there. ~Yogi Bera
There comes a time on Wikipedia when it's important to know when to stop arguing with editors, and simply let them be wrong. Atsme📞📧
Nodding the head does not row the boat. — Irish Proverb
Make haste slowly. —Kikkoman
Be who you are, say what you mean, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind. — Bernard Baruch
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want." —Randy Pausch
I have made this letter longer than usual, because I lack the time to make it short. ~ Blaise Pascal
Patience is a virtue. Give karma a chance.
I may not be young enough to know everything, but I'm old enough to not believe everything.
A tip for longevity: Never believe the impossible can't happen to you.
“It is well known that human choices are affected by the way in which a question is phrased.” ~ Benedetto de Martino
Dear Karma, I have a list of people you missed. Don't sweat it! Karma's only a bitch if you're one first.
”The encyclopedia’s reliance on outside sources, primarily newspapers, means it will be only as diverse as the rest of the media—which is to say, not very.” [1]
Re: the above Bloomberg article, "not very" is quite accurate, but I remain cautiously optimistic that once RECENTISM dies down, things will greatly improve.
"Since decisions are by those who participate in a localized discussion, leaving cedes the decision-making power to those willing to engage in the least logical and sane response. This incentivizes not just obsessive but also belligerent behavior and even harassment, and empowers those privileged with the time and resources to engage in this behavior. Minor quibbles about grammar is one thing, but these techniques are frequently used by political ideologues, ethnic nationalists, and conspiracy theorists. Professor Bryce Peake called this the “hegemony of the asshole consensus.” [2]
No need to elaborate further on that particular quote. Some will be able to relate, whereas others will find it insulting. For more info, see Wikipedia @ 20. You may decide to submit your own essay. AtsmeTalk📧14:03, 23 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I was reading Wikipedia:FRAMBAN in an attempt to improve my understanding of what happened. Lo and behold, nestled quietly in one of the comments was a wikilink to the essay, Wikipedia:Wikipedia does not need you. The following paragraph drew my undivided attention:
Should it happen that a cabal of admins, operating on the talk page of an article or the lion's den of AN/I, manage to block you on an invented charge, the world will continue to turn. The grass will grow, the birds will lay eggs, the number of Pokémon-related articles will still double every 1.7 weeks, and articles on weathermen will be brought to AfD. Sure, it won't be done as smoothly and as elegantly as when you did it, but it will be done. This encyclopedic project will continue to turn. Sad, but true.
Hey there, I saw your name under the list of people willing to do peer reviews and thought I'd see if you were interested in doing a peer review for Pennywise. I'm thinking of getting that article to FA status in the near future and would appreciate any help. If you're interested, you can find the link to the peer review at Wikipedia:Peer review/Pennywise/archive1. Thanks! Gommeh📖🎮14:47, 13 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hello! Voting in the 2025 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 1 December 2025. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
To tag on here the apology that I did not have a chance to include in the case report itself: a relatively long time ago, I believe you asked me to reach out to you as a wikifriend to tell you if you'd crossed the line into inappropriate conduct. I regret not having reached out at an earlier opportunity; each time it seemed like others had given sufficient advice and that there was no need for further warning. Having come across your edits at NPOVN today gave me cause to review the last few months of your activity on Wikipedia, and then the prior cases concerning you, I came to the conclusion that this was something that needed to be brought to administrative attention, and that simply trying to "call you in" would not be sufficient. signed, Rosguilltalk20:53, 18 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Very disappointed in you behaving like "thought police" when all I've done is cite WP:PAGs. I can see that my responses are qualified, so the "gang" is after me. Been there, done that. It's how WP silences neutral POV. The world sees it. Sad. Atsme💬📧21:43, 18 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
One more thought comes to mind...as one of few tutors at NPP School, who happened to garner the most requests for tutoring during my time, including admins, & graduating reviewers who have become admins, it's more than disappointing that you are the acting administrator filing this ArbCom request; sad, really sad. Atsme💬📧22:58, 18 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
WikiProject Articles for creation is holding a month long Backlog Drive in December!
The goal of this drive is to reduce the backlog of unreviewed drafts to less than half a month of outstanding reviews from the current 2+ months. Bonus points will be given for reviewing drafts that have been waiting more than 30 days. The drive is running from 1 December 2025 through 31 December 2025.
You may appeal this sanction using the appeal process and the arbitration enforcement appeals template. You may also appeal directly to me (on my talk page), before or instead of appealing to the noticeboard. Even if you appeal this sanction, you remain bound by it until you are notified by an uninvolved administrator that the appeal has been successful. You are also free to contact me on my talk page if anything above is unclear to you. Arcticocean ■16:54, 23 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The Streisand effect will reach far and wide, and so will Trust & Safety. I hope they nail all of you for the mistreatment I've endured as a female editor for over a decade. If I wasn't a Texan, I would've been long gone like so many other female editors on Wikipedia. Go, go, go, Justapedia!! Atsme💬📧17:03, 23 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, G –– you're such a kind soul. Did you see the bio we did for DGG? He's one of my few wikifriends who left us too soon. I have their candles on my user page. Take care of yourself, G. –– life is short. Atsme💬📧23:43, 25 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
On Isabelle Belato's talkpage, you have made a vicious attack on a user; compare my own comment there. You're angry with an opponent, who lives half a world away from you, and that anger becomes ""I fear for my safety because of that man ... Keep him away from me.". (Not that it would have made any difference if he had lived close by.) I understand that you are not in a good place after the result of this AE report, but there is a limit to how much shameful nonsense that will excuse. If you make a similar attack again, on that user or on anyone, you are likely to be blocked. Bishonen | tålk19:47, 23 November 2025 (UTC).[reply]
Heed your warning that you will block me because I fear for my life, much less my reputation that is being challenged by an insensitive editor who has attacked me, cast aspersions, hounded me on Wikipediocracy and Wikipedia? Are you serious? You consider my fears about someone I never met, who has falsely accused me of being a Nazi and a racist as a vicious attack on THEM? Is this about me contacting Trust & Safety, and that's why you want to block me? Stay off my Talk page, Doug – you have no warranted reason to block me over my fear of a bully. You should be stripped of your tools, and so should the others who are empowering this person. I no longer trust your judgement. Your position is quite clear, and it is not neutral or becoming of an administrator. Your threat is noted. Wikipedia may be global, but it is still based in the U.S. where freedom of speech is the right to express opinions and ideas without government censorship, protected in the United States by the First Amendment, which includes spoken, written, and symbolic expression. This right is not absolute and has exceptions, such as incitement to violence, true threats, and defamation. Guess which editor is on the side of the latter because it certainly is not me. You do realize that defamation extends to Users of this encyclopedia, don't you? Atsme💬📧21:47, 23 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Atsme, I know you are upset, but you should consider striking this or just archiving everything and taking a break. You are giving the hivemind a reason to indef you. Doug is in hospice taking it day by day, Andy is a meanie, but hasn't threatened you, and the 1A only applies to restricting the government, not private companies (witness Twitter, aka X, a cesspool of disinformation). Everything is bigger in Texas, for sure, including your reaction to this dispute, but just give it a break and come back when you are rested and have a fresh take on everything. Don't give them a reason to indef you, which is what your comment amounts to here. Viriditas (talk) 22:25, 23 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Walk in my shoes. I've been hounded, bullied & harassed relentlessly for over a decade by these same people. I used to attend WikiCons, but not anymore since DGG died. Do you know what happened at the last one when an editor got on a stage with a gun? Look it up, my friend. My fear is justified, and T&S better get involved. They blocked Fram & stripped him of his tools for far less. Atsme💬📧22:58, 23 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry you are going through all this. Maybe archive and take your concerns private? Just trying to prevent you from being indeffed. Viriditas (talk) 23:01, 23 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
As you asked me a question I should answer. I have no problems above your contacting T&S although I can’t imagine how they can help you. I agree with Viriditas, archiving this page is probably a good idea. All the best, Doug. Doug Wellertalk14:43, 24 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I hope you find my username comforting. As someone who has actually been stalked online due to my Wikipedia work, I have nothing but empathy for your circumstances. BD2412T01:09, 24 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Not at all uncomforting. I find you to be a huge comfort (& hope you already knew that's what I meant), BD2412. I've just had my fill of the stalkers, bullies, and crazies coming here to my safe space. We'll wait and see what T&S says. This will be interesting considering all that has come to light about WP, the guy with a gun at a WikiCon, and some of the university campus craziness. The world has gone mad. Atsme💬📧01:28, 24 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I saw the AE thread. I do hope you stay around, and that you are able to successfully appeal your ban. Though I'm certain we have very very different views, the wiki is better for having diverse ideologies clashing to make a more neutral article, as many admins had stated in the AE thread. If my ANI thread also caused you unnecessary stress all those months ago, i apologize as well, once more. User:Bluethricecreamman(Talk·Contribs)16:56, 29 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, we sometimes had friendly random conversations on WP in the past. You often express concerns about systemic bias on Wikipedia. The Women in Red wikiproject may possibly already be familiar to you, I didn't see you in the participants category. The project fights systemic bias from the principle that women meeting BLPN often received less coverage in sources, especially in the past, resulting in WP having more male biographies. You likely know of notable Women lacking an article. Feel free to ignore this if I'm only stating the obvious. ~2025-35304-53 (talk) 08:26, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
When I was an active editor, I did work with WiR, attended WikiCons, reviewed FAs, GAs, etc. See my user page/contribs for that history. I have created articles about women, but for the past 2 years, I've been spending my time where it's appreciated and does the most good. It's senseless to keep subjecting myself to the unpleasantries I experienced here despite limited participation, especially when there are better options. But thanks for sharing your thoughts. Atsme💬📧14:05, 26 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]
.jpg)
- so there is no need to post another DS alert..jpg)
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Life's lessons supported by empirical evidence.
Spread the love.
Moonlit night at Fiery Furnace, a labyrinth of sandstone towers. This picture won 3rd place in the June 2019 Geology Photo challenge.
All's fair in love and war.
There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Insanityclown1 (talk) 01:34, 24 November 2025 (UTC)